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To: aMorePerfectUnion
"Now, if you have proof from 100ad or before please share it."

Apostolic Fathers: Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Barnabas, Hermas, Epistle to Diognetus, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus. The churches of Crete and Cyprus and Antioch and Jerusalem were all founded before 100 AD. Reference: The Ante-Nicene Fathers a collection that contains most 2nd and 3rd century writings, fills nine volumes, and includes the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, Apologists, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus of Lyons, and Origen of Alexandria.

"If you do not, it happened as paganism was incorporated into Romanism."

Nonsense. A lot of this is not sourced in the Roman (Latin) church at all, if one is speaking of in terms of direct jurisdiction or cultural patrimony: it's Greek.

You spoke of Gnosticism, and that's double nonsense: the historic doctrines of Christianity were forged in opposition to Gnosticism. You are equating the early (1st-4th century) Christian Fathers with the errors which they opposed all their lives.

75 posted on 05/13/2017 5:45:17 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("I praise you for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you." - 1 Cor 11:2)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Apostolic Fathers: Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Barnabas, Hermas, Epistle to Diognetus, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus. The churches of Crete and Cyprus and Antioch and Jerusalem were all founded before 100 AD. Reference: The Ante-Nicene Fathers a collection that contains most 2nd and 3rd century writings, fills nine volumes, and includes the writings of the Apostolic Fathers, Apologists, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus of Lyons, and Origen of Alexandria.

Nothing to prove this was taught by an Apostle, believed by an Apostle - or any other Christian before 100 ad.

You are using sleight of hand to make it sound as if you've accomplished this. You did not. It is the kind of spinning of straw into gold your posts have been using during the past months - describing facts in a way that they sound as if they are something else.

Nonsense. A lot of this is not sourced in the Roman (Latin) church at all, if one is speaking of in terms of direct jurisdiction or cultural patrimony: it's Greek.

Paganism and its practices were brought into the roman church. Even your Cardinal said so.

76 posted on 05/13/2017 5:48:55 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: daniel1212; Mrs. Don-o

It appears this discussion has landed in your playground. Have you time to post to this ‘paganism in Romish dogma’?


77 posted on 05/13/2017 5:54:15 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; aMorePerfectUnion
For clarification:

The early church fathers fall into three basic categories: apostolic fathers, ante-Nicene church fathers, and post-Nicene church fathers. The apostolic church fathers were the ones like Clement of Rome who were contemporaries of the apostles and were probably taught by them, carrying on the tradition and teaching of the apostles themselves. Linus, mentioned in 2 Timothy 4:21, became the bishop of Rome, and Clement took over from Linus. Both Linus and Clement of Rome, therefore, are considered apostolic fathers. However, there appear to be no writings of Linus that have survived, while many of the writings of Clement of Rome survived. The apostolic fathers would have largely passed from the scene by the beginning of the second century, except for those few who might have been disciples of John, such as Polycarp. The tradition is that the apostle John died in Ephesus around A.D. 98.

The ante-Nicene fathers were those who came after the apostolic fathers and before the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325. Such individuals as Irenaeus, Ignatius, and Justin Martyr are ante-Nicene fathers.

The post-Nicene church fathers are those who came after the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325. These are such noted men as Augustine, bishop of Hippo, who is often called the father of the [Roman Catholic] Church because of his great work in Church doctrine; Chrysostom, called the “golden-mouthed” for his excellent oratorical skills; and Eusebius, who wrote a history of the church from the birth of Jesus to A.D. 324, one year before the Council of Nicea. He is included in the post-Nicene era since he did not write his history until after the Council of Nicea was held. Other post-Nicene fathers were Jerome, who translated the Greek New Testament into the Latin Vulgate, and Ambrose, who was largely responsible for Augustine’s conversion to Christianity.

More can be found here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/early-church-fathers.html

80 posted on 05/13/2017 6:05:21 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The case can be made that the idea of Mary being "ever" virgin first arose from Gnostic sources.

85 posted on 05/13/2017 6:38:04 PM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Apostolic Fathers: Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Barnabas, Hermas, Epistle to Diognetus, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus.

The churches of Crete and Cyprus and Antioch and Jerusalem were all founded before 100 AD.

Yeah, the churches were founded then. So what about it? What does it prove relating to the claims of Mary's perpetual virginity?

158 posted on 05/14/2017 1:33:43 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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