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To: ealgeone
1. No honest rational person who is fluent in Scripture can deny that the adulation given by Catholics to Mary is nowhere given to any created being, and thus is certainly contrary in principal to the manner in which the Holy Spirit describes moral beings, including Mary.

2. And that the ascriptions of power and glory rival those of Christ, and is contrary to the precept "not to think of men above that which is written." (1Co. 4:6) And which is actually dishonoring to the holy virtuous blessed Mary of Scripture.

3. And that the claim that Mary is not given latreia=worship but only "hyperdulia" by Catholics is specious semantics, since in their range of devotion they can engage in what would be understood as worship in Scripture, which uses more than one word for worship..

4. And that this devotion was a post-Scriptural, post-apostolic development, which is akin to what is seen in paganism, not Scripture.

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. (Jeremiah 44:16-17)

The Catholic Encyclopedia speculates that a further reinforcement of Marian devotion, “was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age. It seems to have been only as a sequel of some such development that men turned to implore the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. This at least is the common opinion among scholars, though it would perhaps be dangerous to speak too positively. Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking...,” (Catholic Encyclopedia > Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary)

Also,

100-150—"Ode 19 of The Odes of Solomon affirms the virginity of Mary before and during the birth of Jesus." (Terrence J. McNally [Catholic, retired professor of literature at Northern Kentucky University], "What Every Catholic Should Know About Mary," p. 185)

The Odes date from the second century, and were probably written in Greek or Aramaic. At least one scholar has suggested they may have an origin in Valentinian Gnosticism, though this is of course speculative. The Church Father Lactantius (third century) quoted from them, and the Pistis Sophia mentions about five complete Odes.

In 1909 the English Scholar J. Rendel Harris discovered an old Syriac manuscript with contained all but the second of the 42 Odes. These texts evidence the close inter-relationship of Christian and Gnostic church piety. Translation below is by James H. Charlesworth.


Ode 19
A cup of milk was offered to me, and I drank it in the sweetness of the Lord's kindness.
The Son is the cup, and the Father is He who was milked; and the Holy Spirit is She who milked Him;
Because His breasts were full, and it was undesirable that His milk should be ineffectually released.
The Holy Spirit opened Her bosom, and mixed the milk of the two breasts of the Father.
Then She gave the mixture to the generation without their knowing, and those who have received it are in the perfection of the right hand.
The womb of the Virgin took it, and she received conception and gave birth.
So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies.
And she labored and bore the Son but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose.
And she did not require a midwife, because He caused her to give life.
She brought forth like a strong man with desire, and she bore according to the manifestation, and she acquired according to the Great Power.
And she loved with redemption, and guarded with kindness, and declared with grandeur.
Hallelujah.
(gnosis.org/library/odes.htm)

James Swan adds , "Add in the character of the Protevangelium of James, another key source, and you really start getting a good idea of where these concepts came from, and it was NOT from the Apostles or from Scripture."

More info:

It is Scripture in all its sobriety and sometimes frustrating poverty of information that constitutes the measuring rod of our faith. However, the apocryphal writings have documentary value. They witness contemporary feeling and reverence about Mary. They tell us what some people at a given time thought about Mary, and what their expectations and spiritual beliefs on her behalf were.

The following presentation attempts at gathering most of what the apocryphal writers tell us about Mary, without any claim of being comprehensive. The listing of the various items regarding aspects of Mary's person and life gives reference to their sources (see abbreviations in second column), which in turn are mentioned with more specific bibliographical information as attachment to this presentation.


Legend:

Protoevangelium of James = PJ
Odes of Solomon = OS
Acts of Peter = AP
Sibylline Oracles = SO
The Ascension of Isaiah = AI
History of Joseph the Worker = HJW
Arabic Gospel of the Infancy = AGI
Book of Resurrection of Christ = BRC
Apocalypse of Paul = AOP
Gospel of Nicodemus/Acts of Pilate = NP
Gospel of Gamaliel = GG


ASPECTS OF MARY'S LIFE

Announcement of Mary's birth by an Angel to Anne and Joachim - PJ

When Mary was six months old, she could walk seven steps. -PJ

At her first birthday Joachim held a banquet inviting the High Priests.-PJ

Her bedroom was a sanctuary - PJ

Presentation of M in the Temple at age three - PJ

Mary's betrothal to Joseph at age twelve - PJ

Mary was asked to spin thread for the veil in the temple. - PJ

Added details to Mary's Annunciation (she sees the Angel twice): She went to the well to draw water when she heard a voice. - PJ

Then at home while she was spinning thread for the temple veil the angel appeared to her. Annunciation took place in Jerusalem

The High Priests sent Mary into the wilderness. She returned unharmed. - PJ

Nativity in a cave: Midwife's testimony to Mary’s virginity and Mary's vindication before the High Priest -PJ

The cave where Mary gave birth was illumined with intense light so that the eye could not take it.

Mary encountered Jesus on the Way of the Cross -  NP

Christ appeared to Mary after the resurrection -GG

Vision of Hell

Transitus Mariae

Mary's coming in glory before her Son's coming in glory - AOP

Mary is a descendent of David. - PJ

In the temple Mary was fed by a heavenly messenger. - PJ

Intercession

Mary's intercession - PJ,

Due to Mary's intercession God allotted seven periods for penance to straying humans. - SO

Two miracles of the Infant Jesus worked for women who appealed to Mary. - AGI

The apostles asked Mary to ask the Lord to reveal to them all things in heaven. - BRC

Reactions

Upon entering the temple, Mary danced. - PJ

Mary is terrified upon hearing the voice at the well.

M laughs and her cheeks become flushed at the Annunciation. - PJ

She rejoices and is touched in her heart with shame at the Annunciation. - PJ

Mary cried bitterly when Joseph doubted her, insisting ‘I am innocent.’ - PJ

Mary hid from the people once her pregnancy became visible. She was sixteen years old. - PJ

M urges that Joseph be invoked by the poor. - PJ

At the cross M is overwhelmed with grief, weeping, crying aloud.- NP


FEASTS

Conception of Mary - JP

Nativity of Mary - JP

Presentation of M in the Temple - PJ


TITLES

Highly Favored One - BRC

Tabernacle of the Most High - BRC

Salvation of the World - BRC

Mother, Queen, and Servant - BRC

Mother of the heavenly King - BRC

Mary’s Virginity - PJ


JOSEPH

Joseph’s doubt: he did not want to take Mary as his wife since there was such an age gap. He feared to be made fun of. - PJ

Two brothers of the Lord are sons of J. from a former marriage - PJ

Joseph took Mary out of fear of the Lord but left her alone while going on a journey to build houses. - PJ

Joseph did not know how to register Mary because she was too young to be his wife - PJ

Joseph found a cave where Mary could give birth - PJ

His sons guarded the cave while he looked for a Hebrew midwife - PJ


Bibliography

Hennecke Schneemelcher, Neutestamentliche Apokryphen 1959. English translation edited by R. McL. Wilson

James, M. R. The Apocryphal New Testament 1969

Rush, A. C. "Maria en los evangelios apocrifos," In: J. B. Carol, Mariologia 1964, pp. 156 – 181

Rush, A. C. "Outlines of Mary's holiness in New Testament Apocrypha, In: Virgo Immaculata III pp. 259-268

Schmid, H. R. Protoevangelium Jacobi, A commentary 1965

Schmidt, K. L. Kanonische und apokryphe Evangelien und Apostelgeschichten 1944

Strycker, E. de La forme la plus ancienne du Protévagile de Jacques, 1961 BS2860.2.J2 S8

Tischendorf, C. Evangelia apocrypha Evangelia apocrypha, adhibitis plurimis codicibus graecis et latinis maximam partem nunc primum consultis atque ineditorum copia insignibus, 1876, new edition 1966 BS2850.G7 T5 1966 (International Marian Research Institute, https://udayton.edu/imri/mary/a/apocryphal-writings-on-life-of-mary.php

593 posted on 05/20/2017 5:16:21 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212; ealgeone

Edit: “fluent” was supposed to be “knowledgeable” in Scripture. Sorry


594 posted on 05/20/2017 5:19:58 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212

What a bunch of unadulterated garbage!


623 posted on 05/20/2017 6:51:49 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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