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To: CommerceComet
John was “filled with” the Holy Spirit in the sense that the OT prophets were, but he was not “overshadowed” by the Holy Spirit in the sense Mary was; nor did he have the indwelling Holy Spirit in the sense Christians did after the Resurrection. On a related note, St. John Chrysostom made this point regarding the verse we are discussing (Matthew 11:11): "That the abundance of this praise might not beget a wrong inclination in the Jews to set John above Christ, he corrects this, saying, 'He that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.'"

I was addressing Luke 11:27 and 11:28 together in the post you’re replying to. The contrast here is between being blessed for physical reasons and being blessed for spiritual reasons; this not a denial that Mary is blessed in the latter sense. Indeed, the Holy Spirit via both Elizabeth and Mary had previously proclaimed that Mary was blessed, and Jesus is not contradicting that here.

607 posted on 05/28/2017 3:19:26 AM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora
John was “filled with” the Holy Spirit in the sense that the OT prophets were, but he was not “overshadowed” by the Holy Spirit in the sense Mary was

Other than aligning with Catholic preconceptions about Mary, why would you conclude being "overshadowed" by the Holy Spirit is superior to being "filled" by the Holy Spirit? Isn't it just as plausible to assume that these are synonyms for being controlled by the Holy Spirit?

nor did he have the indwelling Holy Spirit in the sense Christians did after the Resurrection.

First, let me accept your argument that the nature of the indwelling of the Spirit is different before and after Resurrection. Of course, at the time that Jesus made the statement about John the Baptist, the Resurrection hadn't happened yet. So, Mary wouldn't have had that indwelling either, at least if I'm following your argument.

We have the words of Jesus telling us that He had to leave for the Holy Spirit to come but we also have Old Testament examples of the Spirit filling saints. It seems more selective and perhaps temporary but present nonetheless. Like so many other aspects of the Gospel, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit expanded dramatically with the Incarnation but was present before to some degree.

On a related note, St. John Chrysostom made this point regarding the verse we are discussing (Matthew 11:11): "That the abundance of this praise might not beget a wrong inclination in the Jews to set John above Christ, he corrects this, saying, 'He that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.'"

With due respect to Chrysostom, if people actually listened to John the Baptist, such a warning would be unnecessary. John was clear that the Messiah was greater than him. Is this really different than what Mariolatry does?

I was addressing Luke 11:27 and 11:28 together in the post you’re replying to. The contrast here is between being blessed for physical reasons and being blessed for spiritual reasons; this not a denial that Mary is blessed in the latter sense. Indeed, the Holy Spirit via both Elizabeth and Mary had previously proclaimed that Mary was blessed, and Jesus is not contradicting that here.

It does make the point that those who "hear the Word of God and keep it" are at least on equal footing with Mary. Mary was a wonderful servant of God but Jesus is saying that those who "hear the Word of God and keep it" are too. In a sense, Mary isn't that special.

612 posted on 05/28/2017 3:54:11 PM PDT by CommerceComet (Hillary: A unique blend of arrogance, incompetence, and corruption.)
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