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To: BlueDragon
According to a few FRomans, Rome's anathema's towards Protestants were lifted some time back, perhaps 1983, if memory serves.

From a church that claims its doctrines NEVER change??? I got a chuckle out of the Catechism that sounds kinda weasel-worded with their explanation about that change. It says: "Reformulated positively..." In other words, we know we said before that no one could be saved outside of the Catholic church but what we meant to say was: Hence they could not be saved, who knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse to enter it or to remain in it.(1219/846)

So, if you don't believe that the Catholic church was the only way to be saved, then one CAN be saved according to them if "they seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation." That sure covers a LOT of different people - some, even, who reject Jesus Christ as God and Savior. It almost sounds like you can be saved WITHOUT faith in Christ at all as long as you do what is right in your own eyes. That really didn't work out too well for folks in Noah's day.

40 posted on 04/24/2017 10:50:10 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

I think another way out (from RCC perspectives) is for them having stated in one place that these 'other Christians' they wrote about, were in "the Church", just not visibly Roman Catholic.

Yet at the same time the condemnations still stand,operating under seemingly different definition of just what The Church is --- as you went into some detail about. In the end, the bigots among Catholicism can find succor for their own personal religious bigotry, allowing them to consider it not bigotry at all --- even as they whine about how others "hate" and are "anti", and are "bigots", etc.

The mindset short-circuits meaningful discussions.

I spend more than half my time defending against personal & false accusations. It's like there is a crew who are desperate that no one ever hear me (or you) out. I wonder why? Could it be --- they know that some things (that they'd rather not have to defend) will be exposed?

Meanwhile, is the cause of Christ being bettered here among these disputations? I for one am not willing to conflate any Church with being in it's membership, or merely only in it's administration -- God, upon earth.

He is not us, and we are not [fully] Him, albeit His Spirit dwell within those whom He has baptized with His Spirit.

44 posted on 04/25/2017 12:27:55 AM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: boatbums

There is no sin where there is no will. Period. End of story.

If a baby is baptized in an Episcopal church, that baby has become a Catholic in fact, if not in name. If he dies shortly afterward, he goes straight to heaven.

Now with adults it gets complicated—but the bottom line is that you cannot be guilty of heresy if you do not *know* you are committing the sin of heresy.

But I will agree with you on this: too many Catholics have gotten way too weaselly on this point. “Outside the Church there is no salvation” is a dogma of the faith that will always stand and can never be contradicted, even as we try to determine what exactly it means to be “outside the Church”.


54 posted on 04/25/2017 3:39:53 AM PDT by Claud
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