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To: G Larry
It IS BOTH!

CAN'T BE! Did you read Romans 11:6? It is grace OR works. Grace, by the definition the Holy Spirit intended by the very use of the term, means unmerited, unearned, undeserved, it's a GIFT. Works, on the other hand, means merited, earned, deserved, wages due. Do you see the difference?

So, here's a test...let's say you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and you trust in Him as your Savior. Jesus says you are now born again/born from above and the way you live your life starts to show this inward change. Those things you used to do in the past that were wrong, now cause you shame and regret and you desire to be a better person so that God is glorified and pleased. Now, what actually saved you.. your faith or your changed life? According to God, your faith saves you. Your good works are evidence of your faith - it shows that your faith is genuine and not merely surface or "head knowledge" as some term it. What saves us? Our faith or our works? It's one or the other.

All those partial passages you posted can be read in this light or under an assumption that you make of your works saving you. Here's why:

Matt 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”

What is doing the will of the Father?

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28,29)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.

Already addressed. Why would Paul say "not of works lest anyone should boast" then contradict himself by saying works are required rather than what he DOES say which is we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago?

1 Corinthians 9:27 but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified.

Again, why would Paul contradict the gospel he preached? That verse says he disciplines his body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, he feared that after preaching to others he might be disqualified. Disqualified by WHOM? God? No, by those he preached to who see his way of life. How many times have you disqualified whatever someone says because of how they live their lives?

2 Timothy 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he will also deny us;

Why a partial quote when reading the context makes it clearer? This is a trustworthy saying: If we died with Him, we will also live with Him; if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us; if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. Genuine faith CANNOT deny the Savior. We WILL endure because we have the Holy Spirit within us who will never leave or forsake us, by whom we are sealed until the day of redemption.

Well at least you posted more than a snippet. Working "out" is not the same thing as working "for" something, agreed? You can't work out what you don't have and what you have as a child of God is GOD working within you to do what pleases Him. Doesn't say works save you.

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

Like I keep saying, genuine faith WILL show in how one lives his life. Head knowledge or surface belief won't. James doesn't contradict Paul, not at all.

James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.

The book of James is such a favorite of works-based salvation religions isn't it? Look, it probably won't make any difference what I say about these verses since you'll probably just accuse me of YOPIOS. There is really no getting away from the truth that Scripture repeatedly states FAITH is what saves. Abraham BELIEVED and it was counted to him as righteousness (heh, even James says that!).

Whenever you start to add works to faith for salvation, you make salvation dependent upon what YOU do for God instead of what God has done for YOU. We are saved by grace THROUGH faith and not by works so NO ONE can boast. Either you believe that or you work for your salvation and fall away from grace. Genuine faith - the kind that trusts in and believes God saves us by His grace can't help but want to live in holiness. Some people are slower getting there than others but if faith is real, they will be on that path living in the way God created for us since before the foundation of the world.

111 posted on 04/26/2017 7:02:17 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
What do you mean "can't"? Romans 11:6 is a reference to a passage in Kings, in the OT, which is obvious if you back up to verse 4 and read through to verse 7. (in context!) 4 But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Ba′al.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written, They were CHOSEN by grace, and it had nothing to do with belief in the Risen Christ. "What is doing the will of the Father?" The verses I quoted, which you have repeated, make it clear that to "believe" is not a simple declaration, it is evidenced by the way in which we live our lives. Here, you assign to Scripture a contradiction: Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life. I suggest reading all of the verses I presented to resolve your perceived contradiction. 1 Corinthians 9:27 but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified. Again, this is not a contradiction, as Scripture does not contradict itself. It is your bond to a misbelief that causes the perception of contradiction. Scripture does not pass off works as "evidence". It stresses it as a necessary component as noted above and in James, whom you'd prefer to dismiss, because it confuses your preferred understanding. 2 Timothy 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he will also deny us; "Why a partial quote when reading the context makes it clearer?" Indeed! It makes it "clearer", but it does not obliterate the introductory statement "if we endure", which is the foundation of the subsequent phrases. The "if" means that what follows is conditional.
117 posted on 04/28/2017 10:13:54 PM PDT by G Larry (There is no great virtue in bargaining with the Devil)
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