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To: Mrs. Don-o; Iscool; ealgeone; imardmd1; Elsie; metmom; Mark17; Mom MD; SkyDancer; ...
Your unwillingness to answer those simple questions is revealing. Perhaps you secretly know a catholic answer will be outside the Truth of Christianity? ...

John 6 has been so thoroughly mangled in Catholic theology that catholics cannot even see the contradictions in the Catholic carnal minded reading!

John 6:27 Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For God the Father has placed His seal of approval on Him.” 28 Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29Jesus replied, “This is the work of God: to believe in the One He has sent.”…

That passage should be the first clue for an honest soul: the seekers after signs commit the same error that Moses had to deal with at the mountain, namely they wanted to know what they should do, how they could work to obtain eternal life. Jesus answered them by sweeping aside the human pride inherent in performing 'sacraments' to obtain eternal life. JESUS told them to believe and God in His Grace would give them eternal life. To believe, in that passage, is more than merely giving mental ascent, it contains a submission, and JESUS did not leave that out in His discourse with them:

John 6:30 So they asked Him, “What sign then will You perform, so that we may see it and believe You? What will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." 34 “Sir, they said, “give us this bread” at all times. 35 Jesus answered, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to Me will never hunger, and whoever believes in Me will never thirst.

With that teaching, Jesus made it clear that He was not speaking of carnal life but of SPIRITUAL LIFE! Given eternal life, those so born from above will never hunger or thirst again. Do you know of a group of Catholics who claim to be eating JESUS's body, blood, SOUL and DIVINITY who eat such once and never hunger or thirst again in their present bodies? ... Neither do I know of such a group. So, Catholics must be expecting to ingest something as they eat JESUS and drink HIS blood? What do they receive more than a wheat wafer (and wine perhaps)? Whatever it is it must be renewed with fealty to the Catholic sacraments. But in such fealty there is inherent pride of self for performing what the self counts as faithful striving. But that means the Catholic is then stroking his or her pride, reassuring self that they are doing enough to be worthy of eternal life.

But what did JESUS go on to say of the process of life following being born from above? Was it strict adherence to an institution's sacramental trail?

John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of all those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Perhaps you have noticed that JESUS has not commanded they eat His flesh and drink HIS blood, empahtically. HE has emphasized believing on HIM Whom GOD has sent for our salvation. Believing is an act of the will, not a function of the alimentary tract.

But the seekers after signs, the proud Jews insisting on working for eternal life then began to grumble, first questioning His statement that He came down from Heaven --they heard that part clearly-- as the ONE to give Life to the world. What sort of life could JESUS give these carnally alive proud folks? SPIRITUAL LIFE. And HE explicitly said it came by believing in HIM; believing in HIM as their source of LIFE eternal would make them consumers of The Bread come sown from Heaven, the REAL sustenance for LIFE eternal, not consumed by mouth, eating magically transform wafers, but by pointing the will to trust in Him, renewing their faith not their cells, by performing the remembrance of what He was about to do on that cruel tree then dying and rising from the dead to be their High Priest IN HEAVEN forever more.

But the Jews then insisted on taking ONLY a carnal perspective, so JESUS gave the metaphorical references a verily verily but in their carnal wording and they reject it and HIM! The seekers after signs chose the carnal perspective and turned away. The religion of Catholicism has chosen the same perspective, but have gone even more to the sdark side by embracing that which God had placed a prohibition upon, namely eating a persons flesh and drinking their blood.

To be sure, the reality is hidden in fancy ritual and 'sacred mystery' ( transubstantiation at a catholic priest's command? Come on! ), but it is when revealed nothing short of a blasphemy! The catholic ritual at once makes the god of Catholicism a duplicitous caprice, directed to and fro by a special class of 'priests', just as the pagans practiced.

So wat was the final lesson simplification that JESUS gave to those who did not turn away? ...

John 6:61 Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before? 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. ... 65 Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.” ... 67 So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?” 68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life."

Did you catch it? Simon knew what was the source of SPIRITUAL LIFE! He did not say, 'you have the flesh and blood we must eat! He pointed straight to the TRUTH he had just received in his heart, not his belly.

196 posted on 04/08/2017 8:10:10 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: MHGinTN; Mrs. Don-o
Re: John 6:35

35 Jesus answered, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to Me will never hunger, and whoever believes in Me will never thirst.

With that teaching, Jesus made it clear that He was not speaking of carnal life but of SPIRITUAL LIFE! Given eternal life, those so born from above will never hunger or thirst again.

This was already known by Old Testament Prophets, way back to Abrahamic time, as well as under the Law of Moses. While Moses wrote down the Torah books, Job was Aramaic (Gen. 10:23. 1 Chron 1:17) and God spoke to him directly in sleeping and waking visions (Job 33:14-20, 38:1).

Job 23:12, speaking of Jehovah and His Word, of which He is the Personification:

"Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food."

And Jeremiah, speaking of The Word, Jesus being its Giver and Personification (Jer. 15:16):

  "Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts."

Ingesting and digesting His Words is the same as spiritually eating Him, kept alive in the Spirit by His Words, and becoming more like Him as we learn to be controlled by the Spirit, obeying The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The bread token of His Passion is remembering that His body, once and for all time offered as sacrifice, has sanctified once and for all each who put all their trust in Him:

"By the which will1 we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once2 for all" (Heb. 10:10 AV).

  "For by one3 offering he hath perfected4 for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb 10:14 AV). 

Notes:

1 = the Will, the First Covenant, of The Father

2 = ἐφάπαξ (ephapax); a strengthened form of hapax (translated once) such that it is once, for all time, forever, not to be repeated.

3 = the one offering upon the cross, not many, of which truly redeemed believers remember the occasion till He comes.

4 = τελειόω (teleioō); carried through to completion, once sanctified at the moment of salvation and justification of an individual by faith alone in Christ alone, by foreknowledge happening at the Cross.

198 posted on 04/08/2017 9:35:57 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: MHGinTN
Again, Jesus would neither sin nor command others to sin in violation of the Law that He passed down at Mt. Sinai.

That alone shows that the interpretation of John 6 meaning a literal, physical eating of His flesh and blood is the incorrect one.

Going through the motions or religious rituals does NOT impart spiritual life.

Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

209 posted on 04/09/2017 10:15:39 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: MHGinTN
Don't eat the blood, the life is in the blood

Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.

Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”

Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”

Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.

“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.

Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.

Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.

Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.

Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’

Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:

“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

210 posted on 04/09/2017 10:16:19 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: MHGinTN
Then the Catholic church calls the mass an *unbloody sacrifice*, which is no sacrifice at all because without the shedding of blood, there is NO forgiveness of sin.

Unbloody sacrifice

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P41.HTM

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner."188

So they offer an unbloody sacrifice, which is not and CANNOT be the same as the bloody one Jesus made for several reasons, and then tells the participants they are eating and drinking His blood. So just where does that blood come from if it's an *unbloody sacrifice*?

Drinking blood is a pagan practice and NOT for Christians.

It is also forbidden by the Council at Jerusalem by the HOLY SPIRIT.

Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’

Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:

“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Eating blood directly violates the entire weight of Scripture therefore, the eating mentioned by Jesus in John 6 cannot be literal eating. It must be metaphor. And Jesus even told us Himself that that was the case.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

211 posted on 04/09/2017 10:23:49 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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