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To: Repent and Believe; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; dragonblustar; ...

So by what or whose authority to you sit in judgment of your pope or the hierarchy of the Catholic church?

And by what or whose authority do you make judgments that they are wrong and not *real* Catholics, or *true* popes?

Who gave you permission to do that and by what standard do you make your judgments and condemnation?

What kind of spiritual education and training do you have to qualify you to sit in judgment of others like that and determine that THEY are wrong and YOU are right?


630 posted on 01/14/2017 5:50:13 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; dragonblustar

“...by what or whose authority do you make judgments that they are wrong and not *real* Catholics, or *true* popes?...”

By the authority indicated in the comments of Pope Innocent III and Saint Robert Bellarmine below.

Pope Innocent III’s teaching:

“The pope should not flatter himself about his power, nor should he rashly glory in his honour and high estate, because the less he is judged by man, the more he is judged by God. Still the less can the Roman Pontiff glory, because he can be judged by men, or rather, can be shown to be already judged, if for example he should wither away into heresy, because he who does not believe is already judged. In such a case it should be said of him: ‘If salt should lose its savour, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under foot by men.’” [7]

Notice that he qualifies his statement by saying “or rather, can be shown to be already judged.”

A pope who is already judged is not pope, that’s why he can be judged. Bellarmine said just that:

Therefore, the true opinion is the fifth, according to which the Pope who is manifestly a heretic ceases by himself to be Pope and head, in the same way as he ceases to be a Christian and a member of the body of the Church; and for this reason he can be judged and punished by the Church.

When does Bellarmine say the pope loses office: This is the opinion of all the ancient Fathers, who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction… NOT AFTER WARNINGS OR DECLARATION BECAUSE heretics already before being excommunicated are outside the Church and deprived of all jurisdiction. For they have already been condemned by their own sentence, as the Apostle teaches (Tit. 3:10-11), that is, they have been cut off from the body of the Church without excommunication, as St. Jerome affirms…
(De Romano Pontifici 30)

Full article:
https://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/st-robert-bellarmine-and-john-of-st-thomas-versus-john-salza-and-robert-siscoe/


640 posted on 01/14/2017 10:18:21 AM PST by Repent and Believe (The Son of Man, when He cometh, shall He find, think you, faith on earth? Jesus Christ (Luke 18:8))
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To: metmom; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; dragonblustar

“So by what or whose authority to you sit in judgment of your pope or the hierarchy of the Catholic church?...”

These heretic “popes” from 1958 to present belong to Mr. Luther and his the protestants, not to the Catholic Church as seen in the following article:

Vatican: Catholics can now recognize Martin Luther as a “Witness to the Gospel”

http://novusordowatch.org/2017/01/vatican-luther-witness-to-gospel/


641 posted on 01/14/2017 10:21:03 AM PST by Repent and Believe (The Son of Man, when He cometh, shall He find, think you, faith on earth? Jesus Christ (Luke 18:8))
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