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BIBLE PROPHECY INTRO("Cliff Notes" Version)
Prophecy Questions Blog ^ | February 3, 2014 | Charles Meek Prophecy Questions Blog

Posted on 12/15/2016 5:37:56 PM PST by grumpa

BIBLE PROPHECY INTRO (“Cliff Notes” Version)

by Charles Meek

SUMMARY: A common view of Bible prophecy is that Jesus will return bodily at the end of time to punish the reprobate and save the faithful (again). This is usually accepted without question. However, because false predictions about the Second Coming and end of the world are so prevalent, many Christians are increasingly willing to seriously re-examine whether this tradition is truly biblical.

Old Testament prophecy of Jesus’ First Advent (Isaiah 53, etc.), was, of course, fulfilled by a bodily appearance. But, “Second Coming/End Times” prophecy may actually be ALL (or at least mostly) about the changing of the covenants—culminating with Jesus’ divine (but non-bodily) COMING IN JUDGMENT against Old Covenant Israel in AD 70. This is the so-called preterist view.

Let’s walk through how this could be so. To grasp this, take yourself out of your modern setting and see yourself as part of the original first-century audience of the New Testament. Remember that the Bible was written FOR us but not TO us. This will be a short intro and you should look up the passages I cite to see how they fit together, and do your own research into this question (“test all things,” 1 Thessalonians 5:21).

1. The foundation of Bible prophecy is Deuteronomy 27-32. Here we see a discussion about God’s covenant with Israel (29:1), which could be sustained only IF the Israelites were obedient. The passage intimates that at some time in the future—in the “latter days” (32:20, 29)—Israel would break their side of the covenant (31:16) and be destroyed (28:20, 24, 33, 45, 48, 61, 64; 32:23, 26).

2. Deuteronomy 27-32 was known to the subsequent Old Testament writers (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, Malachi, etc.) and is certainly what they had in mind when making their own prophetic utterances. All these subsequent prophets merely elaborated on the passage in Deuteronomy, pointing more specifically to AD 70 and the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple—when the ancient custom of temple sacrifices for sin ended forever. For example, Daniel 12 prophesied that the “time of the end” (Daniel 12:6) would happen when the “power of the holy people comes to an end” (Daniel 12:7) and when “the regular burnt offering is taken away” (Daniel 12:11)—which would be the time of the “abomination of desolation” (Daniel 12:11). Jesus confirmed Daniel’s time line in the Olivet Discourse (Abomination of Desolation, Matthew 24:15), which would close out the END OF THE AGE (Matthew 24:3, 13) while some of those living in the first century were still alive (Matthew 24:34)—coincident with the destruction of the temple (Matthew 24:2). This was clearly the culminating end of the Old Covenant Age, which was just in front of the biblical writers (Hebrews 8:13).

3. Jesus tied the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 27-32 to his own generation multiple times. For example, the time of VENGEANCE from Deuteronomy 32:35, 41, 43 was the first-century generation. Jesus said, “THESE are the days of VENGEANCE to fulfill all that is written” (Luke 21:22, 32). Jesus also echoed the Deuteronomy prophecy about a “perverse generation” (Deuteronomy 32:20), and told the Jews of his day that THEY were that generation (Matthew 12:38, 39, 42; Luke 11:29-32). The other New Testament writers affirmed their own generation as the “perverse” one (Acts 2:40; Romans 10:19; Philippians 2:13-15). In Matthew 3:1-12, John the Baptist spoke of the wrath of Jesus, which was “about to come” (Matthew 3:7, literal translation). Indeed, Jesus would baptize them with fire (Matthew 3:11) and the axe was already laid at the root of the tree (Matthew 3:10), teaching that the judgment prophesied in Malachi 3-4 was imminent. The judgment was indeed imminent and ties perfectly with AD 70.

4. In Matthew 23:29-39 Jesus told the Jews of his day that THEY were the target of his wrath, upon whom the blood of all the prophets EVER IN HISTORY would befall, fulfilling the prophecy from Deuteronomy 32:43! Of further note, Revelation echoes this condemnation against “the great city Babylon” (Revelation 18:21-24) which is clearly identified as the “city where the Lord was slain” (Revelation 11:8-9), again confirming that the Great Judgment was against Jerusalem—an event which would “shortly take place” (Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-20).

5. So, why would Jesus have been so upset with the Jews of the first century? Well, (a) they were indeed evil (Luke 11:29), (b) they fulfilled all Old Testament prophecy (Luke 21:22), and (c) they refused to accept Him as Savior (Matthew 21:33-46; 22:1-14; 23:37).

6. Biblical writers often referred to the First and Second Comings as two parts to the same event. Examples: Daniel 9:24-27, Matthew 3:1-12; Hebrews 9:24—28.

7. Christians underestimate the importance of AD 70. With the temple gone, and with it the sacrifices for sin, recorded genealogies, and rituals—Jesus became the sole source of our salvation (Revelation 21:22).

OBJECTIONS TO THE AD 70 PRETERIST THESIS:

OBJECTION #1. This cannot be the whole story because we know that WE are living in the end times today. ANSWER: This is simply an assumption from the echo chamber. Let’s stick with the Bible. There are 14 primary mentions of the end times/last days in the New Testament. The culmination of none of them can be placed outside the first century. Examples: Acts 2:17-21; 1 Corinthians 10:11; Hebrews 1:2; 1 Peter 4:7, 17; 1 John 2:17-18.

OBJECTION #2. This cannot be the whole story because we know that Jesus has not returned. ANSWER: You have misunderstood both the NATURE and TIMING of Jesus “Second Coming.” He did not promise to return bodily, but rather promised to return just as Yahweh “came” in DIVINE JUDGMENT numerous times in the Old Testament against groups of people (Isaiah 13:9-13 against Babylon; 19:1-22 against Egypt; etc.) Jesus promised over and over to come while some of those living in the first century were still alive (Matthew 10:23; 16:27-28; 24:29-34; 26:64; Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-20; etc.) In fact, there are over 100 imminence statements in the New Testament demanding the soon fulfillment of all last days’ events.

OBJECTION #3. OK, Jesus and the writers of the New Testament THOUGHT Jesus would return in their generation, but they were simply wrong. ANSWER: I find it hard to believe a Christian would say that, as this falls right into the hands of the skeptics. If Jesus and the writers of the New Testament were wrong, they were false prophets! If they were false prophets, how can we trust anything they taught? Indeed, the credibility of Christianity is at stake.

OBJECTION #4. Hey, look. We know Jesus has not come yet because when He does there will be a time of perfection on earth according Isaiah 65-66 and Revelation 21-22—in the new heaven and new earth. In this future time the wolf will graze with the lamb; there will be no more death, crying or tears. ANSWER: If you read these passages carefully, there is still sin and death in the “new heaven and new earth” (Isaiah 65:20; Revelation 21:8, 27; 22:15). So, this is not Utopia-ville. In these passages, God has defeated his enemies, but life continues on. Interestingly, there are still people who have not heard about God and require evangelism (Isaiah 66: 15-19). Regarding the statement about no more death, there is a present reality for the Christian that death has already been abolished (John 11:25-26; 2 Timothy 1:10). The statement about “no more tears” refers to statements in the Bible about the long-awaited Messiah; Jesus has (past tense) “borne” our griefs and carried our sorrows (Isaiah 53:4, etc.). Proper biblical interpretation demands that we separate the literal from the figurative. These statements that you may have considered literal are biblical symbolisms about the benefits of the Messianic kingdom—i.e. the new covenant order, which we now enjoy. For the Christian, “old things have passed away; behold all things have become new” (2 Corinthians 3:18; 5:17; Revelation 21:5).

OBJECTION #5. Well, I see with my head that you are right. But with my heart I still want to hope for a Second Coming. ANSWER: Just what do you hope to have at a supposed Second Coming that you do not have now? Your hope may be misplaced. The true Christian hope is heaven, and you already have that waiting for you now as a believer!


TOPICS: Apologetics; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; preterism; prophecy; second
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To: grumpa

“Have the general resurrection and great judgment happened?”

They obviously haven’t happened, since, as I said, us living Christians are all still here, walking around in our same old bodies, and we are not reigning over anything. So if we were to try and interpret it your way, it would make God a liar.

That’s the consequence of a method like preterism, where you determine what you want to believe first, and then try to interpret the text in light of that goal. It just leads to absurdities and contradictions.


21 posted on 12/16/2016 6:34:49 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Some Fat Guy in L.A.; amorphous; cyn; Lera
Acts 1:9-11 (NIV):
9 After he said this,
he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up
into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Matthew 11

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 17

10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

John 1

19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Elijah, taken up to heaven alive in a whirlwind.
Elijah, appearing at the Transfiguration.
Elijah who was John, was born many centruries after Elijah who was taken up into heaven.
John said he wasn't Elijah.
Jesus said that John was Elijah.

There'a a pattern here.

The son of man... what's in a name, or how someone is addressed? "Son of man" is an idiom to denote any human being ("ben Adam", son of Adam). Kind of like Ploni Almoni, John Doe, Max Mustermann, lit. meaning the max paragon ("example"). It's even paradoxical to use a definite article in front of a generic catch all. Like saying "the" John Doe, or "the" Anytown, USA. Well if it were a specific person or place, it wouldn't be "John Doe", or "Anytown". Heh.

Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them

Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus...

John was Elijah. Same guy; different name. Elijah named as Elijah, appeared at the Transfiguration along with Moses, to discuss Jesus' exodus from Jerusalem. Yet he also came back as a new baby, whose birth narrative is documented. That is to say, when Elijah returned as the man named John, he returned from the ground... up.

Gotta be a reason for that sort of weirdness.

Fascinating, the details that just sit around waiting to be observed by noone in particular.

Im Mashiach ben David

Hebrew tochnit (תוכנית) - fem. n. plan, program, project

Image search results.

What Solomon said:

1 Kings 8

17 And it was in the heart of David my father to build an house for the name of the LORD God of Israel.
18 And the LORD said unto David my father, Whereas it was in thine heart to build an house unto my name, thou didst well that it was in thine heart.
19 Nevertheless thou shalt not build the house; but thy son that shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house unto my name.

22 posted on 12/16/2016 10:53:33 AM PST by Ezekiel (All who mourn(ed!) the destruction of America merit the celebration of her rebirth.)
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To: Redcitizen

Preterism is replacement theology,

Which itself at its heart is really just full-on antisemitism,

These are the ones the Book of Revelation describes as ‘saying they are Jews’ but are not,


23 posted on 12/16/2016 10:32:01 PM PST by captmar-vell
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To: Boogieman

Boogieman, I believe you have an idea about resurrection that is based more on assumption than exegesis. It was to be a rising out of hades to heaven by the faithful, an event that was not visible. As I pointed out in a comment above, the passages about resurrection and judgment are consistently portrayed in Scripture as imminent to the biblical writers.


24 posted on 12/17/2016 5:50:51 AM PST by grumpa
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To: grumpa

“I believe you have an idea about resurrection that is based more on assumption than exegesis. It was to be a rising out of hades to heaven by the faithful, an event that was not visible.”

I’m sorry, but just 3 verses from Matthew 24 eliminate that possibility, as they state that a) the first resurrection happens after the tribulation b) it accompanies Christ’s second coming and c) all the tribes of the earth witness it:

“29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” Matthew 24:29:31

This parallels Christ’s return in Revelation 19 immediately followed by the first resurrection in the beginning of Revelation 20. It also parallels the narrative of 1 Corinthians 15, which tells us that:

“22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

So again, the Bible states that the resurrection of believers coincides with Christ’s second coming, and it further tells us this precedes “the end” when Christ delivers his kingdom to God, after he has removed power from our earthly kingdoms, just as described in Revelation.

I could cite many more verses that confirm these events, but preterism is so ludicrous it really doesn’t deserves a detailed rebuttal. The apostles who wrote the New Testament were for the most part alive in 70 AD, and yet not a single one of them ever mentions that the second coming or resurrections are fulfilled, past events. That alone is enough to tell any reasonable person that this interpretation is simply an impossibility.


25 posted on 12/17/2016 7:13:00 AM PST by Boogieman
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To: Ezekiel
Fascinating, the details that just sit around waiting to be observed by noone in particular.

Indeed! Thanks for the Ping! It's something that deserves a thorough evaluation and cataloged as one of the many possibilities, though I still lean toward the heavens being rolled back theory... :)

26 posted on 12/17/2016 10:14:52 AM PST by amorphous
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To: amorphous
one of the many possibilities

Formula, pattern:

Elijah who was at the Transfiguration.
Elijah who was John.

Same guy, really. No need to pick one over the other. Kind of like y = mx + b. Or two witnesses.

"A line is uniquely determined by two points"

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Line.html

Math is fun. :)

27 posted on 12/17/2016 11:58:31 AM PST by Ezekiel (All who mourn(ed!) the destruction of America merit the celebration of her rebirth.)
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To: TruthInThoughtWordAndDeed

This is my take on upcoming events:

The guaranteed *Jewish* observance of Sukkot.

15 Tishrei 5778.

Not a false “prophesy” ripped off from another religion’s texts and dates, that fail *every time*.


28 posted on 12/17/2016 7:32:48 PM PST by Mr. M.J.B.
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To: Ezekiel
Math is fun. :)

And so is Physics... ;)

29 posted on 12/18/2016 1:32:06 PM PST by amorphous
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