Posted on 10/29/2016 3:23:42 PM PDT by Maudeen
>>> No, they can’t be snatched, but, they can turn their backs on Him. Read further. Jesus said in that day that many will say to Him, Lord, Lord, haven’t we done many good works in they name,
The context of the passage differentiates those whom He knows (possesses)based upon their reliance upon Jesus’s redemptive sacrifice and those He does not know (those trying to save themselves through works)
Show me in this passage where Jesus indicates that someone has “turned their backs”... or where Jesus DID know them, and then DIDN’T know them.
I could have answered using John Calvin: They were saved or damned from eternity. There is no free will. It doesn’t matter who or what they knew. No one then or today can actually know that they are saved. We can only have a good idea based upon or life here. That sounds a little cruel to some people. They may be of the elect of God.
Or I could have used the Great White Throne Judgement where the dead great and small pass before the risen Christ. I’ve talked to people that say this is a final offer of Grace. Beside each of those names is a stamp that says “Debit payed in full” All those resurrected souls have to do is look upon Jesus and accept his offer instead they walk of their own free will into Hell. But saying there may be a last chance of salvation at that time sounds a little to much like universalism some people.
I could also talk about Jesus after he was crucified, descending to Hell and preaching to the souls there and “leading captives free” Thus those who remain do so of their own free will. But this once again looks like universalism to some people.
By saying “I don’t know” I am free to say “The question before us is not what about them but what about you?”
GOOD ARTICLE
What if Someone Never Hears About Jesus?
http://www.christianitytoday.com/iyf/advice/faithdoubt/what-if-someone-never-hears-about-jesus.html
“Your trite old phrase is the standard phrase of those who are antagonistic toward Christians and our beliefs.”
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You need to brush up on phraseology and meanings:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/devil-s-advocate
“You even do a giggle (heh) in the same place that people who are trying to provoke us, do.”
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You might need a humor transplant also, if you don’t get the humor of using the term “Devil’s Avocate” in a religion-themed thread. Ah, well...
(Not to mention the fact I’ve been a Christian for likely more years than you’ve been alive. Ooops, I mentioned it. That’s another “heh”!)
“I could have answered using John Calvin”
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I’m glad you didn’t, I’m predestined to be bored to tears by discussions of Calvinism.
Following up on what you’re saying, I recall in Scripture of a man who accepted Jesus as his Savior, but after that he did nothing at all for the Lord.
He still went to Heaven, but when it came time to hand out the rewards, ‘there were tears’. I assume they were tears of shame and regret.
I cannot quote book, line or verse, but I know it is in the New Testament. One of Paul’s Epistles I think.
Actually there can be no discussion if Calvin was right. It doesn’t matter what you think, do, or say so who cares?
(I’m not a Calvinist)
Actually there can be no discussion if Calvin was right. It doesn’t matter what you think, do, or say so who cares?
(I’m not a Calvinist)
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I wonder if Calvinists choose Calvanism out of their own free will...
:D
Agreed.
Scripture says that those who believe on the Lord Jesus and that God had raised Him from the dead, are not only saved but sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise.
In the days that was written the Greek word for ‘sealed’ meant sealed forever; it cannot ever be unsealed.
But the key word there is “on”, as in believing ON the Lord Jesus Christ. Which is to say, not simply believing He exists (as even the devil does), but trusting Him and walking with Him and cultivating a relationship with Him.
Speaking of Calvinism, as a side note, the sponsor of the survey cited in this topic is Ligonier Ministries, which teaches both Calvinism and preterism.
>>> He still went to Heaven, but when it came time to hand out the rewards, ‘there were tears’. I assume they were tears of shame and regret.
I cannot find that. I do however find in Revelation that God wipes away our tears in heaven. I also know that every man will give an account for all things said and done, and that works not born of the Spirit are burned up and suffrage of loss is the result. (missed opportunity for reward)
However, I believe the real “tears” will be those shed for the loss of those not present in Heaven we loved... and the recognition THEN of the opportunities we missed on earth that would have made a difference.
Ah obviously you have NEVER read... Peter says that while in the tomb those three days and three nights Christ went to those back to the days of Noah... Might surprise you to read Abraham is a Christian. And the ‘devil’ needs no more advocates there are plenty walking around.
>>> Blame retarded modern Rapturism. Every year it doesn’t happen more become disillusioned. Please step away from the rapture literature, Christians.
Thanks for that confirmation that we are in the last days.
2Pe 3:3:
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”
“Christ went to those back to the days of Noah”
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Time travel? Alrighty then.
“Abraham is a Christian.”
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Okaaay.
Not circling at all. I am referring you to a source that can answer your original question.
“Not circling at all. I am referring you to a source that can answer your original question.”
To answer my question, the Gospel Of John wouldn’t apply. The Roman’s reference, tho better, brings up the question I asked before. Since the people had no idea about the God of the Jews, just their belief in some generic creator God saved them?
Its not hard. God doesnt force Himself on anyone. If you dont want a relationship with him, He lets people be apart from Him. Now and in the future.
If they dont want him in their lives now, why would they want him in the afterlife? To be around something you hate for eternity would be hell for those people.
There are lots of people who profess to have accepted Jesus but have never shown any indication of ever having a real heart change.
And there are lots of people who will accept a simple *I believe in Jesus* as a profession of faith and evidence of salvation.
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