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To: Mr Rogers
Romans 9 is discussing the Jewish nation, not an individual man. Although individual Jews did believe, Paul discusses why the NATION did not.

Except verses 22-24 make it clear the whole analogy is about individuals (vessels of mercy) and is not just about Israel. The whole point of the passage is salvation was NEVER about the nation, and God always chose individuals - Isaac rather than Ishmael, Jacob rather than Esau, Moses rather than Pharaoh. Some who are "of Israel" are Israel and some are not. In the same way, he chooses individuals (both Jews and Gentiles) for salvation now.

Romans 9:22-24 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

36 posted on 10/27/2016 12:05:37 PM PDT by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: Gil4

Incorrect. As Paul goes on in Romans 9:

“...25 As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26
“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29 And as Isaiah predicted,

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
we would have been like Sodom
and become like Gomorrah.”
Israel’s Unbelief

30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works.”

He clearly was not discussing individuals, because individual Jews were being saved regularly. But as a people, they were on the back burner. But not forever:

“25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved...” - Romans 11

Also see

https://predestinationstation.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/romans-9-11-key-terms-and-categories/

http://evangelicalarminians.org/a-concise-summary-of-the-corporate-view-of-election-and-predestination/

for a short review of Paul’s argument in chapters 9-11, and here for a longer discussion:

http://evangelicalarminians.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Abasciano-On-the-Corporate-Perepsective-of-Paul-and-His-Culture-the-Tarnslation-of-Rom.-9_6b-and-Corporate-Election-in-Romans-9.pdf


39 posted on 10/27/2016 1:05:06 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (We're a nation of infants, ruled by their emotion)
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To: Gil4

Amen! You are so right about Romans 9. The context makes it clear that Paul was talking about individual, not national election. However, getting hardcore freewillers, particularly if they are older, to take the time to think it through is nearly impossible. Most are unwilling to consider any challenge to their traditions and presuppositions. There just aren’t many Bereans out there. Keep up the good work!

Soli Deo Gloria!


40 posted on 10/27/2016 1:27:04 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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