Survey Finds Most American Christians Are Actually Heretics

The Federalist ^ | OCTOBER 10, 2016 | G. Shane Morris

[boatbums]

Glad you’re feeling better!

[boatbums]

I disagree as the first thing people today think of when they read “he that letteth” understand that it is talking about one who allows something. What the verse is really talking about is the Holy Spirit being removed out of the way, He is who is restraining the evil one. Seventeenth century English (which was a relatively new language) HAS words that have changed in their meaning over the centuries. This is just common sense. Language DOES change.

Anyway, I think you ought to open your very OWN thread on this topic and defend your views there rather than turning this one into a series of rabbit trails. That is unless you believe this is a major reason why a survey finds most American Christians are heretics.

[WhatNot]

The KJV translators separated every book of God's preserved word, from Genesis to Revelation.

Genesis,Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Etc, etc.

Then when they got to the end of the Old Testament, they put in the books of the Apocrypha

1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Etc, etc.

Then when they got to the New Testament, they put in Matthew, Mark, Luke , John.

NO! That's not what they did.

They didn't list the separate names of the Apocrypha, because they knew it wasn't God's preserved word.

What they did was put in a historical document called the 'Apocrypha' for reference purposes(it also included maps and genealogies, like they do today)only.

Keep this in mind when you read the Apocrypha.

Martin Luther said,
"Apocrypha--that is, books which are not regarded as equal to the holy Scriptures, and yet are profitable and good to read."

[WhatNot]

You disagree? That is your right. But that word goes back to the 1300's. Hardly a relatively new language.

Anyway, I think you ought to open your very OWN thread on this topic and defend your views there rather than turning this one into a series of rabbit trails. That is unless you believe this is a major reason why a survey finds most American Christians are heretics.

In reply 17 of this thread, I wrote the following:

I place blame squarely on all Christian Church congregations who have thrown away God's preserved word the KJV and have accepted all the NWO translations of the Bible. Those translations have accomplished the mission they were sent by Satan to do.

Pray for a Bible Revival in the Church houses!

If no one had given a reply, I wouldn't have bothered to write any thing else on the subject. But since I have as much right to answer people as you do, I think I'll stay.

If you hearing truth about God's preserved word, shatters your sheltered little world so much,you are the one that should leave.

[boatbums]

If you hearing truth about God's preserved word, shatters your sheltered little world so much,you are the one that should leave.

Get a grip! Did you even bother reading what I said about using the KJV? I love it, I have studied it extensively, I have memorized quite a bit of it and it is my preferred version because I am so familiar with it. Where you go hysterical is in condemning everyone who doesn't agree with YOU. What gives you that right and how sheltered is your little world? Your assertions that the KJV is "God's preserved word" simply ignores that it didn't even EXIST until the early 1600's. What did people have of God's preserved word before then??? And what about people who don't even speak or read English? Are they without God's preserved word and bound for hell?

Modern English is an evolved language - as are all languages really. You can read here about the influences of Norman, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic and French in addition to Latin on the development of Proto-English, then Old English, then Middle English into Modern English: History of English

Though you may choose to limit the work of the Holy Spirit, I believe that He is able to make the truth known to ALL who diligently seek Him (Hebrews 11:6) whether they have a KJV Bible or not.

[boatbums]

You disagree? That is your right. But that word goes back to the 1300's. Hardly a relatively new language.

That's not the issue. How that is word used today, is. But, that verse isn't the only one the KJV had issues with. Here are two others:

The KJV improperly translates both Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 which muddles the question of the deity of Christ. The KJV translated Titus 2:13 thusly:

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

But other versions do a much better job, such as:

New International Version
while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

New Living Translation
while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.

English Standard Version
waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Berean Study Bible
as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Berean Literal Bible
awaiting the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

New American Standard Bible
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

English Revised Version
looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

Do you see the difference?

Then there's II Peter 1:1, which the KJV translates as:

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Others have the following:

New International Version
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

New Living Translation
This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior.

English Standard Version
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Berean Study Bible
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Berean Literal Bible
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those having obtained a faith equally precious with ours, through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

New American Standard Bible
Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

International Standard Version
From: Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus, the Messiah. To: Those who have received faith that is as valuable as ours through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus the Messiah.

I happen to think the KJV scholars probably relied too heavily on the Latin plus, they were not aware of some important items available today. While they chose from various texts of the earlier printed editions of the Greek New Testament (the versions of Erasmus, Stephanus' text, and most importantly, Beza's revision of Stephanus), they did not have access to the vast majority of Greek manuscripts available today, including the papyri manuscripts which go back to within generations of the originals. (see A Response to a Brother in Christ Dr. Morris' "Defense" of the King James Bible Reviewed).

[WhatNot]

You mean this verse?

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Seems strange coming from a person who doesn't believe this.

Psalm 12:6
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

It's juvenile to think that any translation that comes out is God's preserved word.

And if you don't believe that every translation that comes along is God's preserved word, then why not?

What do you base that belief on? The original manuscripts? Nope can't do that. Your feelings? Nope that is not a good measure.

When a new translation comes out like the one below, and it says something that you feel is wrong, what are you basing that feeling on? What is your measuring stick? Your guideposts? Your "Plumb line"

Amos 7:7
Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand.

Sorry, if in my replies I seem a little harsh, but if you knew how angry it makes me to hear that people who call themselves, "Christians" are adhering to New Age doctrines like

“the Holy Spirit is a divine force but not a personal being.”

Or

“God accepts the worship of all religions including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.”

Or

that the Third Person of the Trinity (which is really the Godhead, but that is another debate for another time) is not equal with God the Father or Jesus

The country I love and grew up in is going to hell right now, and I place the blame for that on American Christian homes and Churches, who have thrown out God's preserved word and replaced it with NWO perversions.

[WhatNot]

Read my last post to you, that will be it for our conversation. I’ve got another thread to work on, which is much more edifying to me then this one is. To be honest this thread is a downer for me.

[boatbums]

Your last post to me isn’t anymore relevant than the one before that. Your anger is misdirected and that ought to be something you should work on rather than falsely accusing fellow Christians of doubting God has, can and WILL preserve His word.

[boatbums]

Also, you should address the issue I raised in #346. Just ignoring it or pretending it isn’t a problem undermines your argument. Go ahead and leave but expect for this to pop again sometime.

[WhatNot]

Ok, then let’s just disagree, and move on. Thanks.

[Rashputin]

Thanks for the tip, I’ll check it out.

[Elsie]

Oh; me too!

Dang stone(s) messed up my road trip with SIL and grandsons to Utah in June as well.

[Elsie]

This is the BEST you can do to DEFEND the FACT that the KJV translators used TWO different English words for ONE Hebrew one?

Keep being in denial.

There are 4 more stages to come; sooner or later.

[Elsie]

Ok, then let’s just disagree, and move on. Thanks.

It's not just 'disagreement'; but an obstinate choice to avoid facts of history.

Your observable narrow-mindedness in being a KJVO adherent makes you appear as rabid as a radical Mulsim over his Quran!

[Elsie]

You are one confusing dude!

; ^ )

 

 

My answer
to such
questions
is simple,

I REMAIN
TRANSLATABLE
AT ALL TIMES!!!

[rwa265]

Thanks for that!

---

You’re welcome. I don’t use the NIV myself, but your discussion made me curious as to how and why it came about.

I have a question about your graphic below.

It says that in the NIV 1984, capstone replaced cornerstone in 1 Peter 2:7. If it is the King James Bible that is being referenced, didn’t capstone replace “head of the corner”?

[WhatNot]

It's the earlier NIV per-version being referenced. But notice the slippery slope.

Both KJV and earlier NIV have cornerstone in 1 Peter 2:6,
The earlier NIV changed 1 Peter 2:7 ''the head of the corner" (why wouldn't they, Jesus is not there head, no way no how) to cornerstone. After that, the NWO just went ahead and said, "let's make Jesus the Devil, and put in the word 'capstone'." New Age Luciferians call Satan the ”Capstone.”

It must of been to obvious what the NWO was doing, so they backed off in the next per-version.

But is it any wonder why when people go to Church these days, it resembles more of an Iron Maiden concert than a Sunday Morning service.

Pray for Bible Revival in the Church Houses!

[VanDeKoik]

This is spot-on.

It all started with the televangelists in the 70s and 80s and went downhill from there.

[WhatNot]

They did have a very big part, and they played their assigned role very well. But it goes back a lot lot farther.

Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?