Posted on 08/15/2016 11:30:02 AM PDT by NRx
This; from a fella who will argue for DAYS about the non-existant phrase "Mother of GOD!!!
Methinks thou protesteth too much.
Having some knowledge of SCHOLARSHIP is not “mindreading.”
Consult some Scripture SCHOLARS, and you will learn something.
Or do you not approve of any of that high-falutin’ book larnin’ at your snake-handling church?
Yet you respond.
Sorry AG; but I mock YOU!
You; who presumes to know SO much; yet can backup NONE of your blustering, boastful and un-Biblical claims!
As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18
• Augustine, sermon:
"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer. — John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327
Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.
• Augustine, sermon:
For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)
• Augustine, sermon:
And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289
• Augustine, sermon:
Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95
• Augustine, sermon:
...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193
• Augustine, Psalm LXI:
Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)
• Augustine, in “Retractions,”
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.
Again, you are contradicting Jesus, who, after he had risen, showed the apostles that he was FLESH and BONE, and still bore the wounds of the crucifixion.
All educated people know that the word “flesh” has several meanings in the New Testament. There is unregenerate human nature, called “flesh.” There is the physical body—including the risen body—which is called “flesh” because it is not pure spirit, like an angel or a ghost.
I see your string of posts, which are not conversation, but just sniping, sniping, sniping. Nasty, small, stupid, attempting to be irritating.
Cut-and-paste. Now that’s creative.
You are a crashing bore. Your hate, sarcasm, and spleen are boring.
Learn to understand what you read before you complain.
I posted something about HEAVEN; you counter with something about EARTH.
When I encounter a corresponding string of posts; that want to be taken as illuminating and/or educating; and I find fault with them; the author would; I imagine; consider that sniping is occurring.
Rational people tend to see it as correction being given.
Do you have trouble accepting correction?
Yet you continue to interact with the TarBaby.
Why?
I guess I have a question as to sense or tense....if by Coredemptrix they mean as in co-equal and not severable as to the process of salvation of sinners...then no it is a false hood and heresy. If they mean it in terms of simply a “co worker” and “Part of the team” then I would no have no argument with that; any Christian who ever witnessed (to a sinner who was then saved) might be a kind of “co-redeemer”...though it was the Holy Spirit that ultimately “wooed” the sinnner and the work of the Cross that ultimately sanctified him!
I suspect as I’ve gathered in my discussions in the past that most Catholics see her as co equal and indispensable to the salvation process...though not all! As for the sinlessness of Mary, I don’t buy it...perhaps she was fairly decent for a Hebrew woman descended from David, but she still had the taint of Adam and Eve. Her faith and trust in God as to what he was going to do saved her and it was his grace that saved her! She refers to the “God of her Salvation”....she doesn’t say “I have become equal with God in Man’s salvation”!
The sinlessness of Mary from conception in no way implies that Mary was not saved, by her savior, Jesus.
“Do you have trouble accepting correction?”
I do, I freely admit...but hey I just take a deep wiff of the isopropyl alcohol being applied to the wound, it takes the mind off the sting. Just look at the serpent mounted to the pole...it cancels the power of the venom!
Interestingly, it’s sort of a “catholic only” word, but also has to do with defining a state of sleep.
THE WORD OF GOD says clearly that flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. The wound in Jesus's side was not dripping blood when Jesus offered to Thomas to touch that wound. You could read the Bible with a more open heart, and see that GOD has told us HE has a way to distribute THE LIFE of the glorified bodies, a way that does not carry the life of a creature in the creature blood. But I suspect you would rather continue in the deep deception from which Catholic Priests draw power over the faithful.
GOD is going to hold you accountable for many souls. It would behoove you to try and gain greater grasp of the TRUTH GOD has given us in HIS WORD. The life of the creature is in the blood of the creature. The Glorified beings are no longer creatures and their bodies will not be getting THE NEW LIFE distributed by creature blood. THAT ALL COMES FROM allowing the WORD of GOD to teach about the differences in the creature life and Spiritual LIFE, the creature body and the glorified body. THE CHRIST is not having HIS LIFE in HIS GLORIFIED body distributed by blood, because "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." 1 Cor. 15:50
But... isn't that the same "God" that Muslims worship?
According to the teaching of CCC 841, it is.
Hoss
Maybe...
But the RCC DOES teach that Mary is a "Mediatrix," directly in opposition to God's perfect, holy and inerrant Word (which I'm reminded many times we have as a result of the RCC.. too bad they don't read it):
CCC 969
"This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."
1 Timothy 2:5-6...
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
Funny. I don't see Mary's name ANYWHERE there. So, if the RCC can teach heresy by equating Mary as a "mediatrix" when there is only ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, then it's not a huge stretch to imagine that the RCC is teaching more heresy such as Mary being a co-redemptrix. Maybe not officially (yet), but I bet it's out there.
And actually, it's in CCC 969, inferred in that, "... she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation...." which is a pretty strong inference that she has something pretty major to do with bringing us salvation. Which, again, is heresy. Only Christ saves. His shed blood alone. Mary has nothing to do with it. So, it's actually a lot easier to see where this "co-redemptrix" nonsense originates.
Hoss
The only irrational thing is that RCC folks pray to someone who's not omniscient and who can do nothing for them because she can't hear them.
People here, like your example of someone's mother, is actually able to hear you and to pray DIRECTLY TO GOD.
Big difference.
Hoss
With Magic Thinking, anything is possible don’tchaknow. But The RCC don’t like it when you expose the vacuous nature of their rituals. They have their secret pride at stake!
The old Testament doesn’t even say that the “virgin that shall conceive” would be sinless. Sorry, don’t buy Mary’s sinlessness. If God saved her, he saved her out of her sin!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.