>>>I don’t have religious traditions
Sure you do. The unaffiliated traditions of the Church of Daniel. You can survey Daniel, and that’s what your church believes. It’s Solo Mio.
From the Catholics, you likely picked up the Most Holy Trinity and a few other basics. Your other interpretations and doctrines, the one’s expressed here are not new, although they are - relatively - recent in the Christian faith.
You can trace your doctrine on denying the Real Presence back to the 16th Century, when the Swiss branched off of Luther over the issue and back to Luther who branched off the Church over authority, and the unbiblical doctrine of solo scriptura. (He would have kicked you out when you soloed your way following Zwingli in ‘your’ tradition.)
Those are the roots of your tradition in history. Add in the further branches in the 17th/18th Century and whatever other bits you have picked up, and there’s the Church of Daniel.
Your welcome to your tradition and your interpretation of Holy Scripture. I’ve studied Holy Scripture and Church history extensively -in formal study and on my own - for over 40 years. I’ve seen your arguments, been through all of them and more, many times. As I’ve said, they torture the plain meaning of Christ, his Apostles, the writings of the early church and history of Christianity. I just don’t find your arguments persuasive when examined critically and factually. And, of course, there is no appeal to authority possible, when you are the sole authority of your doctrine.
We’ve circled around again, said our piece; and, again, I’ll leave you with the last word.
thanks for your reply.
For a church that claims beginnings and traditions from Peter I would have to say that your first pope must have forgot to tell you a few really important things.
1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-—————————……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………-————…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, “Mother of God” applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .-———————————————————— 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary ……………………………………………… … 1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences ……………………………………………… …..1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III …………………………… 1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest …………………… 1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host)…………………………… .. 1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion …………………..1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma……………………………..1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed …………….1439 A.D.
21 Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent…………………………………………————————… 1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible ………——————……….1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary……………………………….1854 A.D.
24, Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican Council ……………… 1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……………………………-—————————————————……1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……………………… 1965 A.D.
You didn’t read a word I said. I don’t deny “Real Presence” because I have the real presence of Christ that lives in me and I in Him. Keep dancing, but your words will not work before that Great White Throne.
Wrong as usual, for unlike you, I can show from Scripture that the doctrines that I believe my fellowship and of any church I have been part in the last 35 since leaving Rome, and even the core truths we both affirm. And likewise I can show from Scripture that the doctrines I reject of Rome are not of Scripture, and thus do not conform to the most ancient and authorative tradition.
You objection must then be to individuals ascertaining the veracity of what is taught by examination of the Scriptures, (Acts 17:2; 18:28 etc.) and in its place argue that an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for determination and assurance of Truth (including writings and men being of God) and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith, and authority.
And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that Rome is that assuredly infallible magisterium. Thus any who knowingly dissent from the latter must be in rebellion to God.
However, the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)
And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
Your other interpretations and doctrines, the one’s expressed here are not new, although they are - relatively - recent in the Christian faith.
Wrong again, for I can show from Scripture that they are ancient, while you cannot even find one prayer to Heaven among the approx. 200 in Scripture of anyone but pagans praying to anyone else in Heaven but God, nor of any NT pastor being distinctively called a priest, and offering up the Lord's supper as a sacrifice for sin, or of it being the central supreme sacraments as per Catholicism, nor of pastors being normatively celibate, or of the church looking to Peter as the first of a line of infallible popes reigning over the church, nor of the novel premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility as per Rome. Etc, Etc.
I’ve seen your argument
And are unable to refute them.
And, of course, there is no appeal to authority possible, when you are the sole authority of your doctrine.
Which is an absurd charge as was made against itinerant preachers of the 1st century who showed from the Scriptures that a certain magisterial - rejected itinerant preacher was the Christ. But the church began because common Jews correctly discerned both men and writings as being of God, while the idea that an ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility is essential for this is what is novel. They nor we are not the authority of our doctrine, but point to Scripture as the supreme source and judge.
We’ve circled around again, said our piece; and, again, I’ll leave you with the last word.
Since your mere assertions have been refuted time and time again, and would be more so, by the grace of God, if you continue with the like, then thus your retreat would be wise.