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To: stonehouse01
It's actually not gobbled gook. The Magisterium is infallible in its extraordinary magisterium AND in its universal ordinary magisterium. In that quote, Paul VI is not attributing Vatican II to the extraordinary magisterium, but he is attributing it to the universal ordinary magisterium.

However, there are things in Vatican II that contradict the universal ordinary magisterium (religious freedom, ecumenism, etc).

And yet Paul VI tells us we must assent to it.

When someone says this is a non-issue it reminds me of those three monkeys: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil (ie. turning a blind eye). It appears that at least you are not doing this.

42 posted on 05/27/2016 2:53:55 AM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: piusv

“Magisterium infallible ... extraordinary and universal ordinary magisterium ...”

I agree that the the magisterium is infallible in its extraordinary and universal ordinary manifestations. I referred to “gobbledygook” because it is only since the late 1800’s that we even had to define these nuances and it can seem as though we are at the proverbial point of defining what the meaning if “is” is.

Truth is not obscure and the magisterium is the magisterium.

The issue at hand is that the Church is indefectible and apostolic and we were told this by Christ Himself.

Therefore, how do we reconcile the fact that there is almost certainly heresy contained within the Vatican II documents and accepted and enabled by the succeeding Popes and Paul VI?

Is the Chair Vacant which means the Church will become and is even now in the process of becoming defectible once the apostolic succession fades when valid Bishops die out as happened to the Church of England and rendering the sacraments ultimately invalid?

An acceptance of that position leads to a defectible Church.

The other position is also very problematic. i.e., the Chair is not vacant but headed by a heretic which is not possible because a formal heretic Pope is de facto “not” (anti) Pope by nature of his heresy.

This is why I invoked Our Lady undoer of knots.

It is a difficult dilemma and the supreme enemy of the Church and Christ is the one who has wrought this confusion.

That in a nutshell causes one to wonder if we are in the end times, but I am not a millenialist type and they have been around and wrong since day one and the Church has pulled out of it, but this one is a real dilemma. Of course the Trinity and Our Lady will prevail and crush the serpent, but ...

Time will tell us in the end, and our trust in the Lord’s promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail. We are in dark times, that is for sure.


43 posted on 05/27/2016 7:43:38 AM PDT by stonehouse01
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