Yes, No, I Don’t Know, You Figure It Out. The Fluid Magisterium of Pope Francis [Catholic Caucus]

Chisea ^ | May 13, 2016 | Sandro Magister

[Mrs. Don-o]

Exactly. Precisely. Thanks for posting this.

This is what I've been saying all along: this Pope has not "changed" doctrine and discipline --- in a declarative, official sense--- and never will.

Not in theory, that is: only in practice!

His studied and finely-calibrateed method of doing this is to massage everything down to a soul-killing ambiguity. Then the orthodox interpret things, as they must, in an orthodox way, and the heterodox in theirs, and nobody receives any correction or guidance from the top.

If you don't grasp this point, you have "not yet begun to fight"

And your bishop says what?

[ebb tide]

Not in theory, that is: only in practice!

You can't have one without the other. Why can't you comprehend that?

[Mrs. Don-o]

GRRRRRR! Who says I can't comprehend that! Isn't that what we're all so upset about? Isn't that why we are even more aggravated with this Pope every time he opens his conniving, equivocating mouth!!?

[Mrs. Don-o]

GRRRRRR!

Who says I can't comprehend that! Isn't that what we're all so upset about? Isn't that why we are even more aggravated with this Agent of Confusion every time he opens his conniving, equivocating mouth!!?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Dorry for the double post. Although it bears saying twice.

I don't usually shout like that.

[ebb tide]

So are you admitting that by changing practice, Francis is changing doctrine/theology?

[ebb tide]

The pope goes slow because he wants to be sure that the changes have a deep impact. The slow pace is necessary to ensure the effectiveness of the changes. He knows there are those hoping that the next pope will turn everything back around. If you go slowly it's more difficult to turn things back… . You have to realize that he is aiming at reform that is irreversible. .

Argentinean Archbishop Victor Fernández, one of Pope Francis’ top advisers; May 10, 2015

[Mrs. Don-o]

No. He's not changing doctrine. He's allowing "pastoral practice" to proceed untethered from it, which is pastoral malpractice to the highest degree.

This is the very definition of corruption.

Don't you get the significance of that?

To use Cardinal Robert Sarah's metaphor, he's not throwing doctrine into the dumpster. Oh, no. He's putting doctrine in a jeweled reliquary, giving it a couple whiffs of incense and then storing it in the back of the closet behind the old altar linens, where (maybe) seminarians will still be permitted access to it if they want to write their feckless theoretical academic papers.

He's savvy enough not to officially rescind anything in the Catechism or Canon Law.

Rather, he turns it into a dead letter.

In some ways, this is worse, because the disorder, though deadly, is subtle enough to slip past the immune system.

[ebb tide]

I recommend you read the following article:

He knows very well what he is doing

[T]he pope is convinced that the things he's written or said cannot be condemned as error. Therefore, in the future anyone can repeat those things without fear of being sanctioned. And then the majority of the People of God with their special sense will not easily accept turning back on certain things.

Please do become part of the majority mentioned above.

[Mrs. Don-o]

1) please try posting the link again... It didn't lead to an article.

2) What?

[ebb tide]

Sorry. I don’t agree with you or Cardinal Sarah about Francis not throwing doctrine in the garbage.

However, I do agree with the perinneal Catholic Church Magisterium.

[ebb tide]

Sorry for the broken link:

http://mirrorofjustice.blogs.com/mirrorofjustice/2015/05/he-knows-very-well-what-he-is-doing.html

[ebb tide]

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Christian Doctrine

Taken in the sense of “the act of teaching” and “the knowledge imparted by teaching”, this term is synonymous with CATECHESIS and CATECHISM. Didaskalia, didache, in the Vulgate, doctrina, are often used in the New Testament, especially in the Pastoral Epistles. As we might expect, the Apostle insists upon “doctrine” as one of the most important duties of a bishop (1 Timothy 4:13, 16; 5:17; 2 Timothy 4:2, etc.).

The word katechesis means instruction by word of mouth, especially by questioning and answering.

[jobim]

This is a snippet of a longer piece at:
http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.ca/

Screwtape summoned a Club servant to fill his glass. He shifted in his chair, animated
by the recollection of his own triumphs. "The master stroke was my brilliant idea for a
document which would be structured around ambiguity ... the beauty of this was that it
introduced into the teaching of the Church just that primacy of imprecision, of self-
contradiction, of deliberately cultivated vagueness, of programmed disintegration and
fissiparous confusion, which is the essence of our rules and traditions down here in the
Pandaemonium Club. It also has the strategic advantage of making the mortals unable
to pinpoint explicit error in a text which eschews the heresy of explicitness." He waited
as the glass was filled, and raised it to his nose. The dogmatisms, perhaps, of
Savonarola and of Bertrand Russell excitingly blended? With deeper hints of Martin Luther?

[Mrs. Don-o]

"However, I do agree with the perinneal Catholic Church Magisterium." Change hat to "perennial," and I agree.

:o)

[ebb tide]

Thank you.

I consider Screwtape to be an excellent analogue to Pope Francis.

[ebb tide]

Too bad Francis doesn’t agree with us.

[Mrs. Don-o]

But why would you want to assert that the Pope even has the authority or power to change doctrine? That's papolatry: it's the line taken by Marx, Forte and Casper: that the pope *can* change the doctrine.

But he can't. All he can do, if he's against a doctrine, is to neglect it, obfuscate it, undermine it, or violate it. But he can't change it. Because he hasn't the authority.

[Mrs. Don-o]

THis is excellent. I’m stealin’ it.