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1 posted on 05/13/2016 6:21:24 AM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide
Exactly. Precisely. Thanks for posting this.

This is what I've been saying all along: this Pope has not "changed" doctrine and discipline --- in a declarative, official sense--- and never will.

Not in theory, that is: only in practice!

His studied and finely-calibrateed method of doing this is to massage everything down to a soul-killing ambiguity. Then the orthodox interpret things, as they must, in an orthodox way, and the heterodox in theirs, and nobody receives any correction or guidance from the top.

If you don't grasp this point, you have "not yet begun to fight"

And your bishop says what?

2 posted on 05/13/2016 7:03:26 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn His countenance to you and give you peace.)
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To: ebb tide
This is a snippet of a longer piece at:
http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.ca/

Screwtape summoned a Club servant to fill his glass. He shifted in his chair, animated
by the recollection of his own triumphs. "The master stroke was my brilliant idea for a
document which would be structured around ambiguity ... the beauty of this was that it
introduced into the teaching of the Church just that primacy of imprecision, of self-
contradiction, of deliberately cultivated vagueness, of programmed disintegration and
fissiparous confusion, which is the essence of our rules and traditions down here in the
Pandaemonium Club. It also has the strategic advantage of making the mortals unable
to pinpoint explicit error in a text which eschews the heresy of explicitness." He waited
as the glass was filled, and raised it to his nose. The dogmatisms, perhaps, of
Savonarola and of Bertrand Russell excitingly blended? With deeper hints of Martin Luther?

15 posted on 05/13/2016 8:57:00 AM PDT by jobim
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To: ebb tide; Mrs. Don-o
Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: "He who heareth you, heareth me";[3] and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians. - Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis, 1950

Laudatio Si is an Encyclical so it demands consent since it is considered part of the ordinary teaching of the Church/Pope. Amoris Laetitia and Evangelii Gaudium are not encyclical letters but they are Apostolic Exhortations which are also part of the ordinary teaching of the Church. Therefore, according to Church teaching they also demand consent.

The problem (which has been with us for 50+ years)arises when the teaching contradicts previous teaching.

40 posted on 05/14/2016 5:19:27 AM PDT by piusv (The Spirit of Christ hasn't refrained from using separated churches as means of salvation:VII heresy)
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To: ebb tide

You figure it out and if I don’t like it, I will veto it?


42 posted on 05/14/2016 6:54:43 AM PDT by Let's Roll ("You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality" -- Ayn Rand)
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