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"The catholic has to redefine prayer TO Mary as not being prayer to her, but rather, veneration/adoration."

Now hold on a minute. Wrong, wrong, and wrong: three times wrong in one sentence.

First, we are not "redefining" prayer. We are using the older and historic meaning of the word. I made that point in my last post with an observation on the shifting of the semantic field of the word "pray" over the past couple hundred years --- can you please deal with that?

Second, I NEVER said we don't pray *to* Mary, but quite the opposite: I said we do pray *to* Mary, and it's legit: we're not worshiping her as if she were a goddess or some such thing.

And third, I NEVER used the term "veneration/adoration." My repeated point is that veneration is NOT adoration.

Honestly, you're not thinking right, if you think I said the diametrical opposite of what I said.

Would you please read carefully and note that I say we DO pray to Mary, and this is NOT adoration?

Second, I NEVER said we don't pray *to* Mary, but quite the opposite: I said we do pray *to* Mary, and it's legit: we're not worshiping her as if she were a goddess or some such thing.

The idols and statues say otherwise.

First, we are not "redefining" prayer. We are using the older and historic meaning of the word. I made that point in my last post with an observation on the shifting of the semantic field of the word "pray" over the past couple hundred years --- can you please deal with that?

There in may be the problem. Let's turn to the word prayer in the New Testament.

proseuchomai is the greek verb for pray.

4336 proseúxomai (from 4314 /prós, "towards, exchange" and 2172/euxomai, "to wish, pray") – properly, to exchange wishes; pray – literally, to interact with the Lord by switching human wishes (ideas) for His wishes as He imparts faith ("divine persuasion"). Accordingly, praying (4336/proseuxomai) is closely inter-connected with 4102 /pístis ("faith") in the NT. HELPS Word studies