Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: metmom

One Church, one teaching from early Church fathers as to what Christ meant and affirmed by every leading theologian for two centuries, including several Protestant theologians who converted to Catholicism. Drive-by individual interpretations are worse than useless, they are heretical and misleading.

Here’s proof.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 6:48 I am the bread of life. 6:49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 6:50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.”

6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

6:52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

Jesus now doubles-down and does not try to correct his literal meaning.

6:53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 6:54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 6:55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Don’t forget these words of Jesus which were spoken in the course of his ministry anticipating the institution of the Eucharist in the context of the final Passover Supper which Jesus shared with His apostles. And the Church, from the very beginning, has continued to repeat the words of consecration spoken by our Lord at that supper with the firm conviction that Christ is truly present in some manner in the consecrated Bread and Wine, now Body and Blood.

A sign of the reality of Presence of Christ in the Eucharist may be seen in what St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, in which he not only repeated the words and actions of the Last Supper but notes the punishment upon those who unworthily receive the Holy Eucharist:

11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 11:24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 11:25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 11:27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 11:28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 11:29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.


5 posted on 04/22/2016 10:32:36 AM PDT by Steelfish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies ]


To: Steelfish

Do you live forever?

Do Catholics who eat ever die?

If the eating is literal and the life is literal, then the living forever is literal.

To pick and choose which parts of His discourse are to be taken literally and which part is to be taken figuratively, is disingenuous.

Literal eating of the flesh and blood also violates God’s holy commands.

Understanding ti figuratively, as Jesus said it was, remains true to the rest of the body of Scripture.

If you’re going to be literalist about everything Jesus says, then we should live forever, we should have water flowing out of our bodies, we should not be calling religious leaders *Father* and the Flood really happened.


6 posted on 04/22/2016 10:50:25 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: Steelfish; metmom
I really think catholic bibles must have omitted a lot of John. For context.

26Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” 28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

30So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform?

31“Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’” 32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33“For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”

35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.

36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.

37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

41Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?”

43Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45“It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46“Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48“I am the bread of life. 49“Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50“This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51“I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”

52Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55“For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57“As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58“This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”

59These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

64“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” 66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.

67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”

70Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?” 71Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him. John 6:26-71

A fine example of this type of exchange also occurred between Jesus and the Samaritan woman. It is well worth the read to see the similarities.

14 posted on 04/22/2016 7:11:12 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: Steelfish; metmom
The Greek for remembrance is as follows:

ἀνάμνησις

anamnésis

noun

properly, deliberate recollection, done to better appreciate the effects (intended results) of what happened;

It derives it's meaning from the verb ἀναμιμνήσκω,

anamimnéskó

I remind, admonish, am reminded, remind myself; pass: I remember, recall.

Anamnesis is used in Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:24-25

17 posted on 04/22/2016 7:23:21 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: Steelfish; metmom
Jesus now doubles-down and does not try to correct his literal meaning. 6:53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

Again, while it can easily be shown that obtaining spiritual life is by believing the gospel message, (Acts 10;43-47p; 15;7-11) you must be consistent and admit that there is no salvation for all who do not believe in and receive the Cath Eucharist, as this is essential to even obtain spiritual life.

Failing that, you must show why this statement is not an unequivocal imperative as much as other "verily, verily" statements in John are.

Failing that, you had best leave the thread. Rather than showing this from Scripture, appealing to uninspired writings of post apostolic men is an admission that this is the source of your belief.

146 posted on 04/23/2016 7:19:21 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson