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To: ealgeone

Good grief.

You accept context in one place but not the other only because it agrees with catholic teaching.

Well, I’ve offered example after example from the NT that indicates He did indeed have brothers and sisters. It has been supported in the Greek and within context.

If you, and other catholics, want to persist in believing non-Biblical writings regarding Mary as a perpetual virgin, in contradiction of what the NT shows, I cannot help you.


Good grief yourself, Charlie Brown. You are engaging in mind reading. My concern has nothing to do with Catholic teaching. What I question is whether the purported context is supported by Scripture.

Think about the word you used, ealgeone. You did not write “proves”; You did not write “clearly demonstrates.” You wrote “indicates.” This is the most that we can derive from Scripture alone.

I know that Scripture tells us that Jesus had brothers and sisters. But nowhere does Scripture identify Mary as the mother of any of those brothers or sisters.

And even in the Greek, the word itself does not fully reveal the relationship. For example, the Greek word that is used for James and John in Matthew 4:21 is the same Greek word that is used for Judah’s brothers in Matthew 1:2. We know from Matthew 20:20 that James and John are full brothers because it mentions the mother of the sons of Zebedee. And we know that Judah’s brothers had four different mothers among them.

My contention is based solely on Scripture. It neither proves that Mary remained a virgin nor does it disprove that Mary remained a virgin.


665 posted on 03/15/2016 5:24:30 PM PDT by rwa265
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To: rwa265; ealgeone; Elsie

Which gets back to the question again.

What is so important about Mary remaining a virgin that the Catholic church needs to make it a matter of faith, doctrine, dogma, whatever?

Why is it so critical that she did when after the birth of Christ, the prophesy about her was fulfilled?

Why does the thought that Mary had sex with her husband after the birth of Jesus send Catholics into such a tailspin? Do they really think that that would defile her?

Sorry Elsie. Better luck next time.


667 posted on 03/15/2016 6:25:25 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: rwa265
Gracious...yes it does.

We do not have to dates and times they conceived these children nor do we need them.

We don't have their birth certificates nor do we need them as the NT is about Jesus.

We do however have numerous passages telling us these are the brothers and sisters of Jesus. The Greek, and context, make this clear to anyone who reads the Word.

Another way we know Mary had other children is through the Greek as used in Luke 2:7 describing Jesus as her firstborn...in the greek it is prototokon: first born, eldest.

That Jesus is not her only child is clear as Luke did not use monogene, meaning only, one of a kind, unique. Luke being a doctor and writing his account around 60AD would have known if she'd had other children or not. Same can be said for Acts written about a year later. The other Gospels were written in a time span that would enable them to determine if there were or were not other children.

Again....context is your key to understanding this topic. The plain, clear reading of the Word is there for anyone to see.

Paul identified James as the Lord's brother. I'm not going into the Greek again or what brother means.

Matthew kept her a virgin until Jesus was born.

After Jesus was born, Joseph and Mary engaged in marital relations...or SEX. We know this because he kept her a virgin until His birth. After that they had sex.

Matthew 12:46, Matthew 13:55-56; Luke 8:19; Mark 3:31; John 7:1-10, Acts 1:14; Galatians 1:19 make it crystal clear He had siblings.

These are not children from another marriage.

These are not Joseph's children from another marriage.

These are the children of Joseph and Mary.

The text is crystal clear Jesus had brothers and sisters and they are from Joseph and Mary.

668 posted on 03/15/2016 6:39:00 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: rwa265

it is curious that you have made a good case for inability to prove via scripture either way, yet you have dedicated yourself to supporting the assertion by your religion that Mary not only remained a virgin after giving support to the gestating Jesus, but that she has this long string of venerations (amounting to demi-goddess status) none of which are supported by scriptures even remotely! In the words of the bounty hunter on Serenity, ‘Does that make sense to you?’


669 posted on 03/15/2016 6:40:22 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: rwa265
yet ever virginity is argued over no longer virgin

I see

721 posted on 03/16/2016 5:17:42 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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