Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: unlearner

We first find the statement that the people of God are a kingdom of priests in the Old Testament: “And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” (Exodus 19:6). And yet this did not mean that there was not a distinct early priesthood with unique duties that others could not take on themselves. The first Baptists we find in Scripture are Dathan and Abiram:

“They gathered together against Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “You take too much upon yourselves, for all the congregation is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord?”” (Numbers 16:3).

See the rest of that chapter to see how that turned out.

And here is the specific quote from St. Ignatius on the Eucharist:

“6:2 But mark ye those who hold strange doctrine
touching the grace of Jesus Christ which came to us,
how that they are contrary to the mind of God. They
have no care for love, none for the widow, none for
the orphan, none for the afflicted, none for the
prisoner, none for the hungry or thirsty. They abstain
from eucharist (thanksgiving) and prayer, because they
allow not that the eucharist is the flesh of our
Saviour Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our
sins, and which the Father of His goodness raised up” (To the Smyrneans). http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-smyrnaeans-lightfoot.html

I am aware of the use the terms bishop and presbyter in the New Testament, but it is still a fact that you clearly have three levels of authority in the Church in the New Testament (Apostle, Presbyter/Bishop, Deacon) and you clearly have three levels of authority in the post Apostolic Church — only that the successors of the Apostles did not take the title “apostle” to themselves, but the term bishop came to be applied exclusively to the first level of authority, and “Presbyter” came to be applied exclusively to the second level. The functions, however, remained unchanged.


74 posted on 01/08/2016 9:52:34 AM PST by crumudgeonous
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]


To: crumudgeonous

Exodus 19:6
And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.

You make an excellent point. I have to agree with your general argument that there are leaders in the church who have authority to govern. The main distinction I think has to do with the term “priest”. We no longer offer animal or similar sacrifices as the Aaronic priesthood. The New Testament discusses offering the “fruit of our lips” as praise, worship, and thanksgiving. All believers function like a priest in this sense I believe. And none offer the sacrifices under the Old Testament economy.

“The first Baptists we find in Scripture are Dathan and Abiram”

Numbers 16:31-33
Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods. So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the assembly.

I have not heard of any Baptists being swallowed up by the earth for rejecting the authority of the Catholic or Orthodox churches. Further, the Israelites did not have a Bible at this point. Moses was their only way of hearing from God. When I reject the authority of modern clergy, it is specifically for their rejection of the Bible as the highest authority. They put themselves above Moses and the apostles.

“here is the specific quote from St. Ignatius on the Eucharist”

Ignatius was specifically speaking of the Dosetists who rejected Christ’s humanity and the reality of His human suffering. Ignatius also used figurative language about the bread being symbolic of the members of the body of Christ (as in 1 Corinthians 10). He said in the fourth chapter to his letter to the Romans, “I am the wheat of God, and am ground by the teeth of the wild beasts, that I may be found the pure bread of God.”

Origen wrote that the bread and cup are symbolic when commenting on Matthew 11:4:

“Now, if ‘everything that entereth into the mouth goes into the belly and is cast out into the drought,’ even the meat which has been sanctified through the word of God and prayer, in accordance with the fact that it is material, goes into the belly and is cast out into the draught, but in respect of the prayer which comes upon it, according to the proportion of the faith, becomes a benefit and is a means of clear vision to the mind which looks to that which is beneficial, and it is not the material of the bread but the word which is said over it which is of advantage to him who eats it not unworthily of the Lord. And these things indeed are said of the typical and symbolical body. “

Clement says something similar:

“’I,’ says the Lord, ‘have meat to eat that ye know not of. My meat is to do the will of Him that sent Me.’ You see another kind of food which, similarly with milk, represents figuratively the will of God. Besides, also, the completion of His own passion He called catachrestically ‘a cup,’ when He alone had to drink and drain it. Thus to Christ the fulfilling of His Father’s will was food; and to us infants, who drink the milk of the word of the heavens, Christ Himself is food. Hence seeking is called sucking; for to those babes that seek the Word, the Father’s breasts of love supply milk.”

And also this:

“Thus in many ways the Word is figuratively described, as meat, and flesh, and food, and bread, and blood, and milk. The Lord is all these, to give enjoyment to us who have believed on Him. Let no one then think it strange, when we say that the Lord’s blood is figuratively represented as milk. For is it not figuratively represented as wine? ‘Who washes,’ it is said, ‘His garment in wine, His robe in the blood of the grape.’ In His Own Spirit He says He will deck the body of the Word; as certainly by His own Spirit He will nourish those who hunger for the Word.”

“you clearly have three levels of authority in the Church in the New Testament (Apostle, Presbyter/Bishop, Deacon)”

I agree generally with this distinction. However, there were some who were “apostles of Christ” and others who were “apostles of the churches”.

2 Corinthians 8:23
If anyone inquires about Titus, he is my partner and fellow worker concerning you. Or if our brethren are inquired about, they are messengers [i.e. “apostles”] of the churches, the glory of Christ.

There are those who serve as missionaries and have authority over local congregations for the purposes of laying a foundation and specifically appointing elders and deacons who continue to lead the local church from that point forward.

None of this supports a centralized, worldwide authority over local churches. The Bible is the voice of the apostles of Christ for today.


75 posted on 01/08/2016 3:22:30 PM PST by unlearner (RIP America, 7/4/1776 - 6/26/2015, "Only God can judge us now." - Claus Von Stauffenberg / Valkyrie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson