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To: BlueDragon; Iscool; metmom; Elsie
The term Theotokus (more literally translated into English as "God Bearer", than Mother of God) when it is insisted be used across the board implies that she is mother of that second "person" of the Trinity, instead of in more limited fashion ---be mother of the earthly incarnation of that "second person" of the Trinity.

Did you catch that distinction?

I certainly did catch that distinction. And you have fallen into precisely the heresy that the term "theotokos" was intended to combat: Namely, shattering the unity of the Incarnate Word.

It is precisely because JESUS CHRIST IS ONE PERSON--the Son--that Mary is NOT called "the mother of the human nature of Christ" or "the mother of the flesh of Christ" but "the Mother of God."

You have demonstrated once again that those who deny to Mary the title "Mother of God" eventually defend their position by denying that Jesus Christ is one Person with two natures, that God became Man, that the Word became flesh, falling into one or more of the classic Christological heresies.

1,141 posted on 01/06/2016 10:22:27 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

Fallen into heresy?

That is a false accusation.

The earthly incarnation of the 'second person' of the Trinity can quite easily enough (nowadays, anyway) be understood to not be divided as for the two natures. Not divided from time He was conceived within Mary, anyway. Prior to that time of conception -- you tell me -- did He have a 'human' nature? If so, then HOW?

I said nothing that is opposed to the concept of the 'two natures' being in inseparable unity. Along lines of the type of accusation you just made, I said only that Mary was not herself the (capital S) Source of Christ's divinity, with it rationally following that the Source of Christ's own divinity is from nowhere else other than His real & actual Father.

I did not term the situation as Mary being restricted to being "mother of [only] the human nature of Christ", yet you put that within quotation marks as if I did. Don't be putting words in my mouth that I did not say...

I did however single her out as being the 'source' so to speak, of Jesus' human, physical nature. That is not the same as dividing the two natures in the womb ---where those two natures became as one inseparable (as far as I know).

It appears to me that you keep side-stepping how referring to Mary as say; mother of the Incarnate Christ, stops short of the necessary backpedaling one must engage in order to limit perceptions of the motherhood of Mary (in regards to her son, Jesus) be not only to the second person of the Trinity ~alone~ (not Mother of God the Father and The Holy Spirit too), but also only to the earthly incarnation of that same "second person" of the Trinity.

That can be so without there being anything like an automatic dissolving of the the two (fully human, and fully divine) natures.

I have demonstrated nothing of the sort just now, or even much previously, although there is a trap of sorts inherent with speaking of this issue.

People often are not careful and precise enough with their chosen wordings when they attempt to express from just where the two different 'natures' Christ is otherwise said to possess as His one entire indivisible nature and being come from. I suppose one could backtrack the human nature to having come from God too, through the human being known to us as the first 'man', Adam --in the first place-- BUT I JUST COVERED THAT ASPECT also.

So; for what you have just accused me of;
I've said nothing of the sort. Not even close. I've taken pains to avoid doing so.

You falsely accuse me amid continuance of yourself engaging in ranting and raving railing.

Something of that (cough-cough) nature has occurred ancillary to discussions of this type since Nestorius's position and argument was framed and decided upon prior to himself even arriving at the Council of Ephesus (431 AD), and a century prior to that in regards to the violence, the persecution even unto death of those who tended towards agreement with bishop Arius ---committed by supporters of bishop Alexander (of Alexandria) and the then deacon Athanasius just prior to when the Council of Nicea officially commenced.

1,144 posted on 01/07/2016 12:50:58 AM PST by BlueDragon (TheHildbeast is so bad, purty near anybody should beat her. And that's saying something)
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