Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer
Lk 1:43, Jesus is Lord.
Jesus IS God the Son. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are all God. Did Mary bear them all? For if Christ is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God, and to claim Mary is the "Mother of God," failing to include ALL of the Godhead would seem to me to be wrong.
The only reason this objection is reasonable is if you are a Modalist. You are not a modalist are you? Because then you are suggestion patripassionim.
How about:
Luke 23:46:
"Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last."
Didn't Jesus die? It said he "breathed his last" -- does the commending of his spirit into the Father's hands denote a separation from his human nature? Or did his body vanish from the cross?
Well, that's not fair; Roman Catholics STILL have Christ crucified on the cross, at least that's what I see on every RCC crucifix.
If he wasn't separated, he didn't die; if he didn't die, our sins are not paid for.
Get it?
Hoss
You're confusing nature with only the physical body. Jesus had a Human Will in union with His Divine Will.
When we die we are separated from our bodies, but though the flesh dies the nature of our humanity only experiences death which is separation of soul and body. The Humanity undergoes death, But We will also be resurrected in the flesh Just as Jesus restored his body in the resurrection.
At no time even in the tomb, was the death of Jesus a separation from his humanity.
God is eternal. He cannot be "born" -- God is not created. Christ is the Second Person of the Godhead -- "very God of very God" -- not created or made... Jesus was indeed born of Mary. His physical body was born of Mary. She is the mother of Jesus. She cannot be the Mother of God, because God must imply the Trinity -- when you say "God" you DO mean the Triune God, right? Because God IS a Triune God. So, if you claim Mary bore GOD, she would have to have borne the Godhead. She couldn't. She didn't. She bore Jesus. Unless you're claiming that God the Son is a different God than God the Father or God the Holy Spirit.
You're not saying that, are you?
Hoss
If God is not three distinct persons he is not a Triune God But a Modalistic God. You're really not a modalist are you? In which the case Jesus is God the Father, God the Son And God the Holy Spirit in the same definition. There are not three distinct persons but one in reality.
Mary is the Mother of the Second Person of the Trinity. The persons are differentiated, but the essence is not. The Being of God is one, but the individuals remain.
if you claim Mary bore GOD, she would have to have borne the Godhead. She couldn't.
She did bear the Godhead of the Second Person. Note that to be a Mother is only to supply half. Half of what makes the incarnation. But it also means to carry, to Carry the God of Humanity in her womb. It also means to give birth to the incarnation. And to have raised Him.
These facts are sufficient truths based in scripture to insist that Mary is the Mother of God.
Back up and consider how Jesus The Son of God referred to Mary in person (at the wedding) and when she came with more of the family to speak with Him as He taught in someone’s home. Mary IS the Mother of Jesus. When Jesus was functioning as God with us, He addressed her as ‘Woman’ not Mom or Mother. When she came with others of the family to speak with Him, perhaps to try and persuade Him to stop putting Himself and the family at risk with His teaching, He didn’t address her directly even, just by comparative relationship.
Nice try. In no way have I said I'm a Modalist or believe that. One God; Three Persons.
Keep at it.
Hoss
Nice Mormon talking point.
Sorry you don’t trust the Holy Spirit.
Your post reveals your lack of understanding of God and His Power and Word.
Your golden claves will be consumed by fire, don’t stand too close.
Do you worship your interpretation of the KJV or just the KJV of the Bible?
It's fruitless to debate with those firmly embedded in Catholicism.
Which believes that Mary gave birth to the eternal God,
that she was always sinless,
that she remained sinless and a virgin--(God approved of her marriage to Joseph so denying him the marriage bed world have been a sin if she did so as Catholicism teaches, therefore admitting she sinned)--
every creature must be subject to the pope,
Jesus was a Catholic,
Catholicism started when Jesus walked the earth,
a priest can turn a wafer into the actual body of Jesus, even a priest who just came from the back of the church where he molested a child (proclaimed by a Catholic here,)
Salvation can come from Mary with out Jesus involved etc etc.
If members of a belief system can accept all of that it's going to be difficult for them to break free.
We just have to keep praying that the Holy Spirit will open their eyes.
Knock them off of their high horse like Jesus did to Saul/Paul.
How is the Motherhood of Mary of the second person of the Trinity who is God, also make her the Mother of the other two persons?
Jesus does not function as God. Jesus is God. At no time Is he ever not God. This is a truth that is not ambiguous, it is precisely who Jesus is.
When she came with others of the family to speak with Him, perhaps to try and persuade Him to stop putting Himself and the family at risk with His teaching, He didn’t address her directly even, just by comparative relationship.
Jesus is illustrating a point to His listeners about the relationship he has with those who follow Him. What's the problem?
I’m not insinuating that at all. I am insinuating only what I actually said: Certain opinions or beliefs cannot be believed by people of normal intelligence, and among those are the notions that Mary is the mother of the Trinity, or mother of God the Father.
Thus, the charge that Catholics DO believe those idiotic propositions is clearly preposterous, and is rooted, not in honest theological reasoning, but in malice.
The title “Mother of God” means that Mary, by virtue of her being the mother of Jesus, and by virtue of the fact that Jesus is one divine Person, is the mother of God the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Eternal Word. The title has never meant anything else.
Those who deny Mary the title “Mother of God” necessarily deny that Jesus Christ is one divine Person, the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity. They will say, “Mary is the mother of Jesus, but not the mother of God.” And if you let them talk a little while, sure enough, they start digging the hole deeper and deeper, talking about Jesus and God the Son as two distinct persons or two distinct beings. They have done so many times in history, and here on FR.
Wow nice ad hominid
Christians don’t interpret the Bible, they let the Holy Spirit do that.
Worship a translation? You are dead nuts.
What will you do when you run out of straw?
Some day you will have to face Jesus.
Yes, we are waiting for you to explain that.
That ball is in your court.
Do you worship your Magisterium's interpretation of the Bible? They're human too. Do you read the Bible at all? In any version?
Really. Nice try.
I read the Bible, in a variety of translations. Personally, I enjoy the ESV, the KJV and the NKJV as well as the NASB. I worship God Almighty. Do you?
Hoss
Now in human terms being the mother of someone means that the someone came into existence in that mother's body. Jesus The Son has always been with God and Is God, so He did not come into existence in Mary's body, but His physical body did. And ya know what, Scriptures tell us that for a season He made Himself a little lower than the Angels, to be our Savior.
Mary could not be the one in whom even a part of the Godhead came into existence, because God exists before Mary. Mary therefore is not the mother of God, since God pre-exists mary, but she is the Mother of the physical body God The Son of The Almighty Father occupied. Of course, you nor I can say precisely when The Son began to occupy that gestating body, but it had to be pretty early since the six months old nane in Elizabeth's body recognized His Lord's Presence.
Now ask yourself if the body Jesus now occupies had a mother. If you recognize that God made The Son new, in a glorified body, then the answer is that the current body Jesus occupies did not have a mother to gestate in.
Meant to ping you ...
But venison goulash! Now there's something splendid! Are you the mighty hunter, O Master Verga?
Can you push it through the 'puter somehow so I can have a taste?? :oP
Excellent point(s)!
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