Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer
It's cold here tonight.
Not "mama, Mother" which the the Spirit of his Son never inspired any writer of Scripture to pray to Heaven.
Oh yes it is.
Those of us that were on the thread where it happened were gobsmacked.
Aside from the fact that the Incarnation of Deity had a human body and Deity Himself doesn’t have a human body, do tell what is it?
Gabriel told Mary that the Holy Ghost shall come upon her, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow her: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of her shall be called the Son of God.
When this happened, did not the Deity Himself become the Incarnation of Deity? Isn’t that what is meant by “the Word was made flesh”?
We had a good ham bone in our soup beans. I like a ham bone in potato soup, too. But alas there are factions. The ham vs non-ham factions, as well as the relatively clear (but crowded) broth containing chunks of potato, vs the blenderized kind.
But we live in peace! Pass the cornbread!
True, and by which logic Mary's parents were grandparents of God, and believers are brothers of God, and the Jews and Romans killed God. But which is misleading and inconsistent with Scripture. For one, the normal unqualified conveyance of this is that if ontological oneness, while Christ is the Creator of Mary and she contributed nothing to His Deity.
And the Holy Spirit is careful to make that distinction when stating the Christ came out of Israel: "of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:4-5) And nowhere calls Mary the Mother of God, nor believers "brothers of God," which also sends a confusing message and risks blasphemy.
Such is not the language of the Spirit, who is very careful about giving titles, and refrains from giving glorious titles to mortals, while Mother of God is part of the egregious unScriptural exaltation of one whom the Spirit says little of, and what is said is not even close to the Catholic extravagance, which thinks of mortals way above what is written, contra 1Co. 4:6.
The objection of Ratzinger to Co-redemptrix as contrary to language of Scripture at least, is also applicable to Mother of God though he dare not go that far.
, when asked in an interview in 2000 whether the Church would go along with the desire to solemnly define Mary as Co-redemptrix, then-Cardinal Ratzinger responded that “the response of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is, broadly, that what is signified by this is already better expressed in other titles of Mary, while the formula “Co-redemptrix†departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings†(53).
He went on to say that, “Everything comes from Him [Christ], as the Letter to the Ephesians and the Letter to the Colossians, in particular, tell us; Mary, too, is everything she is through Him. The word “Co-redemptrix†would obscure this origin. A correct intention being expressed in the wrong way. “For matters of faith, continuity of terminology with the language of Scripture and that of the Fathers is itself an essential element; it is improper simply to manipulate language†(God and the world: believing and living in our time, by Pope Benedict XVI, Peter Seewald, Ignatius Press, San Francisco, 2000, p. 306
About this "Born again" nonsence, as you call it.
From the New Testament of the Bible, KJV John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.And to further bring the Truth out, there is this from John 105 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
14,15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.Jesus made a pretty strong emphasis about born again Christians having eternal life, being saved.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
To the extent that Jesus said NO ONE can pluck them out of His hand, and to make sure that is clear to you, Jesus also said no man may pluck them out of His Father's hand.
So you pronounce those that believe this Word of God "heretics."
If you don't accept those scriptures from the Word of God, does that mean you think Jesus is a heretic?
That will not turn out well for you, Mr. Cuban.
Do you honestly think there is evidence left of every Biblical person?
Don't read an ything into this, don't wist my words. each word means exactly what it says, and only what it says.
The Trinity is made up of three distinct separate persons. These persons are God the Father, God the Son (Jesus, the second person of the Trinity), and God the Holy Spirit.
These three persons while completely separate share one nature. This is a divine nature. Each of them is fully capable of acting separately from the others, yet these actions are always in full accord with each other. This full accord was how God the Father was able to send His Son for our redemption, and Jesus was able to send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church in all truth.
Now Jesus as a separate person was able to fully posses two natures. A divine nature, and a separate fully human nature. He was fully God and fully man. This fully human nature shared the same human emotions as every other human, but was cognizant of His fate and able to overcome His fears through faith in the Father. (See the garden of Gethsemane.)
This second person of the Trinity did die on the cross and it was indeed God that did die. As several of you are so fond of saying it was only through the shedding of blood that we could be redeemed. Millions of humans had died before Him yet none of them could redeem us. It had to be the death of God the Son, second person of the Trinity.
Abraham being willing to sacrifice Isaac was the precedent that set the stage for this. God the Father had to be not only willing to let His Son die but actually had to let His Son die for the redemption to occur.
Note: I will not be responding to any of the typical stupid or smart aleck comments I expect to arise from this post. If you have something intelligent to say I will respond. Anything that contains the usual "Prove it from scripture" comments will be ignored.
Like priest for presbyteros/elder. Or claimed that what the original languages say when that is a specious claim. Ever hear that kecharitomene means Mary was uniquely filled with grace meaning sinless? Versus ..
Just got back from taking the boys for their nightly constitutional (The girls are two dainty, delicate and ladylike to go out on a night like this) It was freezing, literally. We had our first real snow fall this afternoon. I made Venison goulash tonight for dinner. I will be taking the left overs for lunch tomorrow and the wife will be taking it for dinner (Stupid second shift.)
Not sure, but that might get you in trouble with your church...something bout Nestorianism....
If you could stop right there and NOT claim that Jesus' mother Mary bore God, you'd be okay.
Hoss
Yeah, bless their little hearts.
If it's homemade I don't care!
But we live in peace! Pass the cornbread!
Amen Mrs. D!
The Cuban is spot on dead nuts correct.
Born "from Above" Vs. "Again. The Greek word Anothon occurs exactly 12 times in 12 verses in the New Testament. The five words we are concerned with are Anothon which the Catholics contend means "From above" and the Fundies contend means again. The second word is Apanow, which means above/ over.
The third word is Palon- that really does mean again. Deuteron is fourth and that means secondly.The fifth word is Anagennao. This literally means to be born again and occurs exactly twice in the Bible and that is in 1Peter 1:3 and 1 Peter 12:23: If the Protestants are correct when we look at each of these verses we should be able to substitute either word and have it make perfect sense. I have included several verses that use the word Palon to document the common use of that word. You will also notice that in John 3:4 that Nicodemus does not use either Palon or Anothon, but rather Deuteron, meaning secondly or second.
Matt 27:50 But Jesus cried out again (Palon) in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit.
Matt 27:51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (Anthon) to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split.
Mark 15:38 The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (above anthon) to bottom. Luke 1:3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew (From their source anthon), to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus,
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above (Anthon)."
John 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?"
John 3:31 The one who comes from above (Anthon) is above (Anthon) all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all).
John 19:11 Jesus answered (him), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above (Anthon). For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin."
John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four shares, a share for each soldier. They also took his tunic, but the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top (Anthon) down.
Acts 26:5 They have known about me from the start (Anthon) From the first), if they are willing to testify, that I have lived my life as a Pharisee, the strictest party of our religion.
Galatians 4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again (Palon) Untranslated word Anthon (anew) to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again (Palon)?
James 1: 17 all good giving and every perfect gift is from above (Anthon), coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change.
James 3: 15 Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above (Anthon) but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.
James 3: 17But the wisdom from above (Anthon) is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity.
1 Peter 1:23 23You have been born anew,(Anagennao) not from perishable but from imperishable seed, through the living and abiding word of God,
All 12 verses with the Greek Translation. Plus the actual use of the word Greek words for “born again†(Anagennao)
Matt 27:50 But Jesus cried out again (Palon) in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit. (Jesus did not cry out from above, he cried out a second time)
Mat 27:50 o de ihsouv palin kraxav fwnh megalh afhken to pneuma
Matt 27:51And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (Anothon) to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split,(The veil was not torn "again" it was torn from top to bottom)
Mat 27:51kai idou to katapetasma tou naou esxisqh ap eiv duo apo anwqen ewv katw eiv duo kai h gh eseisqh kai ai petrai esxisqhsan
Mark 15:38 The veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top (above Anothon) to bottom. (See above, no pun intended)
Mar 15:38 kai to katapetasma tou naou esxisqh eiv duo ap apo anwqen ewv katw
Luke 1:3 I too have decided, after investigating everything accurately anew (From their source Anothon), to write it down in an orderly sequence for you, most excellent Theophilus,(This is the only verse that you could conceivably substitute "Again", but the colloquial "From their source makes better sense)
Luke 1:3 edoxe edoxen kamoi parhkolouqhkoti anwqen pasin akribwv kaqexhv soi grayai kratiste qeofile
John 3: 3Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above (Anothon)."(Verse in contention, no comment required)
John 3:3 apekriqh o ihsouv kai eipen autw amhn amhn legw soi ean mh tiv gennhqh anwqen ou dunatai idein thn basileian tou qeou
John 3: 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again (duetron secondly)? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?" (Here is where the Prots really put their foot in it. Nicodemus never says again (Palon) he says Secondly (Deuteron)
John 3:4 legei prov auton o o nikodhmov pwv dunatai anqrwpov gennhqhnai gerwn wn mh dunatai eiv thn koilian thv mhtrov autou deuteron eiselqein kai gennhqhnai
John 3:31The one who comes from above (Anothon) is above (Apanow) all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all).(Those that come" again" are "again" all, Makes no sense at all.)
Joh 3:31 o anwqen erxomenov epanw pantwn estin o wn ek thv ghv ek thv ghv estin kai ek thv ghv lalei o ek tou ouranou erxomenov epanw epanw pantwn estin estin
John 19:11Jesus answered (him), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above (Anothon). For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin." (Pilate was not given power again, he was given it from above, God allowed him to have power)
John 19:11 apekriqh autw o ihsouv ouk eixev exousian oudemian kat emou oudemian ei mh hn soi dedomenon soi anwqen dia touto o paradouv paradidouv me soi meizona amartian exei
John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they took his clothes and divided them into four shares, a share for each soldier. They also took his tunic, but the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece from the top (Anothon) down. (The tunic was not woven again, it was woven from the top down)
John 19:23 oi oun stratiwtai ote estaurwsan ton ihsoun elabon ta imatia autou kai epoihsan tessara merh ekastw stratiwth merov kai ton xitwna hn de o xitwn arafov arrafov ek twn anwqen ufantov di olou
Acts 26:5 They have known about me from the start (Anothon, From the first), if they are willing to testify, that I have lived my life as a Pharisee, the strictest party of our religion. (They did not know about Paul "again" they new about him from the beginning)
Act 26:5 proginwskontev me anwqen ean qelwsi qelwsin marturein oti kata thn akribestathn airesin thv hmeterav qrhskeiav ezhsa farisaiov
Galatians 4:9 but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again (Palon) Untranslated word Anothon (anew) to the weak and destitute elemental powers? Do you want to be slaves to them all over again (Palon)? (The phrase "from above" clearly does not fit here)
Gal 4:9 nun de gnontev qeon mallon de gnwsqentev upo qeou pwv epistrefete palin epi ta asqenh kai ptwxa stoixeia oiv palin anwqen douleuein qelete
James 1:17 all good giving and every perfect gift is from above (Anothon), coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change. (Is the gift coming "again", no it is coming from God, who is "From above")
Jas 1:17 pasa dosiv agaqh kai pan dwrhma teleion anwqen estin katabainon apo tou patrov twn fwtwn par w ouk eni parallagh h trophv aposkiasma
James 3:15 Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above (Anothon) but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. (See Previous)
Jas 3:15 ouk estin auth h sofia anwqen katerxomenh alla all epigeiov yuxikh daimoniwdhv
James 3:17 But the wisdom from above (Anothon) is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity. (Again the wisdom is "from above", not "again")
Jas 3:17 h de anwqen sofia prwton men agnh estin epeita eirhnikh epieikhv eupeiqhv mesth eleouv kai karpwn agaqwn adiakritov kai anupokritov
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again (Anagennao) to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 1:3 Ev̱logi̱tós o Theós kai PatÃ̱r tou KyrÃou i̱mó̱n Ii̱soú Christoú , o opoÃos sýmfo̱na me to méga éleos mas ékane na anagennao se mia zo̱ntanÃ̱ elpÃda méso̱ ti̱s anástasi̱s tou Ii̱soú Christoú apó tous nekroús ,
1 Peter 1:23 23 You have been born anew, not from perishable but from imperishable seed, through the living and abiding word of God,
1 Peter 1:23 Anagennao ouk ek sporas phthart alla aphthartou dia logou zontos theou kai menontos eis ton aiona
Conclusion: The only reasonable definition of the word "Anthon" is "From above/ from the source or beginning", There is a perfectly good word for "born again", Anagennao. Neither Nicodemus, nor Jesus use that word, instead Nicodemus uses Deuteron. Nicodemus apparent confusion results from Jesus' use of the word "Born" not from “Above" Anothon, which was the word that Jesus used.
Likely the RC answer is bcz Rome said so. For Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.
How dare you deny Roman autocracy!
How dare you deny Roman autocracy!
:D
Pegged it...again!
Hoss
You can gather as much by Nicodemus' question about re-entering his mother's womb.
Why Roman Catholics strain at gnats and swallow camels is beyond me.
Hoss
Apparently you did not read the post.
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