Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer
HMMMmmm...
I want to talk to Mary; whom Rome has elevated to GOD-like status!
Oh my, without conflating spiritual Ekklesia with the institutional church, where would catholics be? LOL
I guess. I can’t remember that one.
I must have been “offensive”, “making it personal”, or “childish.”
Let’s see what’s behind Door #2, Monty.
Nice - invent protestant excuse for heresy then disprove the Church because it doesn’t comport w the excuse invented. Nice.
And yet worship as worship toward God versus mere veneration or abased obeisance (such as Joseph's brethren did toward him, but which no NT believer is sanctioned doing, "for all ye are brethren"), is not defined in Scripture by a distinctive word, but by the manner and also sometimes by the content of its expression and residence of its object. For the respective words for worship in Hebrew (shâchâh) and Greek (proskuneō) basically means "to prostrate bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence... [Strong's], thus denoting an act, but which is surely denoted as worship when towards an invisible being, praising, praying or making offerings (as towards the Queen of Heaven in Jer. 44), and or making religious feasts to such, esp. in a sanctified place, swearing by such as their supernatural strength, often with great superlatives and ascribing Divine attributes to said being, including the ability to hear all prayers addressed to the being in Heaven, with a common posture being falling or bowing down.
All of which is seen in Marian "veneration," and none of which save for prostration is seen as being sanctioned toward any created being.
Psa_95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Rev_4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne...
Rev_19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev_22:8,9 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Psa_138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
You can ascribe to a created being Divine attributes and or render superlative praise and adulation that is far far above that which given to any created being, and implore, beseech, beg and even make offerings to this heavenly entity in prostration as if she was Deity, but as long as you do not call it worship then it is not. Then in addition you can attempt to support it toward Bible Christians by shamelessly engaging in such egregious extrapolation (from what little is said in Scripture about this mortal) that a cultist should blush at it.
Jer_44:19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
Act_7:42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
Dan_3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Zep_1:5 And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the LORD, and that swear by Malcham;
ALL believers are similarly graced.
That either means we’re all immaculately conceived and sinless, or that she’s not.
And she’s not as she herself acknowledged a need for a savior.
Only sinners need Jesus. The righteous can stand on their own merit.
Keep telling yourself that.
No, not accurate as Mary is the mother of the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity, not the mother of the Godhead, which is what saying *mother of God* says. *Mother of God* says *mother of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit*.
All Mary is saying is that she hadn't had sex with anyone so how could she have a baby?
For those of us who read the Word in context, it's really not that complicated.
The Bible said that Jesus had brothers and sisters—who was their father? Catholics say they were half brothers from an early marriage—what was Joseph’s first wives name?
Bible also says that Mary was a perfect wife to Joseph—soulds like they had sex in the old fashioned way—so she wasn’t a perpetual virgin? The Catholic Church wanted to turn Mary into the Roman Harvest Goddess or a new Isis? Why no grave for Mary? She was just taken up to heaven to be with God? what happened to Joseph? He seems to have gotten a raw deal here.
You mean we really aren't discussing brain surgery? Imagine that.
I’d like to point t out that all Eastern an Orthodox Churches agree o. Mrs perpetual Virginity and assumption (dormition). The only ones that don’t are people who follow the Protestant heresies.
I am so glad you have such a grasp of the concept a grasp even greater than all those gathered in the Council of Ephesus almost 1650 years ago who disagreed with you completely. Wow you are, just Wow!
But the Eastern and Orthodox Churches often object to the immaculate conception as being dogma.
Also, how is the perpetual virginity a salvific issue? The fact that she was a virgin before Jesus was born is important, and prophesied, but after?
Finally, Jesus said to His followers, “But who do you say that I am?” (Matthew 16:15), not “Who is My mother?”. In fact, Jesus never taught anything about His mother being part of the plan of salvation, and the NT writers do not mention her as part of the salvation plan, other than her virginity before Jesus’ birth.
Keep up the good work MM.
But I did stay at a Holiday Inn though......:)
Focus upon what the Bible says about Mary being betrothed to Joseph, and what Joseph was told about going ahead and taking Mary as his wife. Catholiciism twists the notion of vows and the Jewish wedding process, betrothal, marriage, so that their institution can elevate the Mother of Jesus to status which empowers the Vatican, not the adherents.
:-)
A goat!
Who are YOU trying to teach??
... unlike you the Church has the authority to teach.
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