The Oldest Hymn to Mary (early christian worship)

Patheos Standing on my head ^ | November 6, 2015 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

[NYer]

Papyrus in the Rylands Library, Manchester UK

One of the things that maddens and amuses me about Protestants is something called “primitivism”. I’ve written about it here. “Primitivism” is the ambition to return the church to the simplest form as it was in the “early church”.

The little fundamentalist church in which I grew up worked on this assumption. They were going back to basics and getting rid of all those “man made traditions”. They were cutting out the denominations and prayers read out of books and all that fancy stuff and it would be just the Bible.

Their idea of the “early church” was, of course, what their church was like. They were actually ignorant of the facts about the early church, which is understandable as they were Bible only Christians. Consequently they assumed that the early church was just a group of Christians meeting in someone’s home or a simple building to sing songs and have a Bible study.

One of the things they definitely did NOT have was any devotion to the Mother of God. That was a late, Catholic, man made abomination! That was a much later pagan interpolation into the simple Bible based religion!

Except it wasn’t. This blog post outlines the fascinating discovery of the manuscript of the oldest hymn to the Blessed Virgin.Their idea of the “early church” was, of course, what their church was like. They were actually ignorant of the facts about the early church, which is understandable as they were Bible only Christians. Consequently they assumed that the early church was just a group of Christians meeting in someone’s home or a simple building to sing songs and have a Bible study.

One of the things they definitely did NOT have was any devotion to the Mother of God. That was a late, Catholic, man made abomination! That was a much later pagan interpolation into the simple Bible based religion!

Except it wasn’t.

Thisoutlines the fascinating discovery of the manuscript of the oldest hymn to the Blessed Virgin.

The earliest text of this hymn was found in a Christmas liturgy of the third century. It is written in Greek and dates to approximately 250 A.D.

In 1917, the John Rylands Library in Manchester acquired a large panel of Egyptian papyrus including the 18 cm by 9.4 cm fragment shown at left, containing the text of this prayer in Greek.

C.H. Roberts published this document in 1938. His colleague E. Lobel, with whom he collaborated in editing the Oxyrhynchus papyri, basing his arguments on paleographic analysis, argued that the text could not possibly be older than the third century, and most probably was written between 250 and 300. This hymn thus precedes the “Hail Mary” in Christian prayer by several centuries.

Here's the text:

On the papyrus:
.ΠΟ
ΕΥCΠΑ
ΚΑΤΑΦΕ
ΘΕΟΤΟΚΕΤ
ΙΚΕCΙΑCΜΗΠΑ
ΕΙΔΗCΕΜΠΕΡΙCTAC
AΛΛΕΚΚΙΝΔΥΝΟΥ
…ΡΥCΑΙΗΜΑC
MONH
…HEΥΛΟΓ

Full text:
Ὑπὸ τὴν σὴν
εὐσπλαγχνίαν
καταφεύγομεν
Θεοτὸκε· τὰς ἡμῶν
ἱκεσίας μὴ παρ-
ίδῃς ἐν περιστάσει
ἀλλ᾽ ἐκ κινδύνου
λύτρωσαι ἡμᾶς
μόνη ἁγνὴ
μόνη εὐλογημένη.

In English:
Beneath your
compassion
we take refuge,
Theotokos! Our
prayers, do not despise
in necessities,
but from danger
deliver us,
only pure,
only blessed one.

Here it is set to music:

Sub tuum praesidium

Turns out the hymn to the Theotokos (the God Bearer) dates from 250 AD.

What is very interesting about these comparatively recent documentary and archeological discoveries is not only what we can gather from the scraps of text themselves, but how they become part of a much larger puzzle. We can piece things together to build up a better picture of the true facts.

The hymn is clearly a prayer to the Blessed Virgin asking for her intercession and assistance in time of trouble. This shows continuity with the belief of the church down through the ages. I’m thinking “Mary Help of Christians.”

Therefore, if this hymn to the Virgin dates from 250 AD we can deduce that it must be a written record of an earlier practice. Think about it, by the time something is written down for use in the liturgy it must already have been in use for some time. Furthermore, if this prayer is part of a document that is a copy of another document, then this also indicates that the actual practice is earlier than the manuscript itself.

In addition to this, if the hymn-prayer is included in the liturgy, then it must be something which is approved by the church and in practice on a fairly widespread basis. If it is included in the liturgy, then the term “theotokos” was not simply a theological term or a theological concept, but something which was integrated into the worshipping and devotional life of the church from the earliest days.

That argument also goes the other way: if the term “theotokos” was used in a hymn-prayer venerating the Blessed Virgin, then a high view of her significance in the plan of redemption must also have been prevalent in the theology of the early church.

You want primitive Christianity? You want to worship like the “early church” then Marian devotion had better be part of it!

[Mom MD]

There were heresies in the Christian church as early as the time of Paul. just because something is old does not make it right

[rwa265]

Then Mary gave birth to divinity?

The second person of the Godhead didn’t exist until Mary birthed Him?

And then did GOD, the second person of the Godhead die on the cross as well?

---

What does Scripture tell us?

- Then Mary gave birth to divinity?

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Matthew 1:18-23

And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 1:30-35

I suppose these Scriptures can be interpreted in various ways, but how can it be said that these verses do not reveal that the child Mary gave birth to was divine?

- The second person of the Godhead didn’t exist until Mary birthed Him?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1:1-18

So the second person of the Godhead did exist in the beginning and became flesh when Mary conceived and birthed Him.

- And then did GOD, the second person of the Godhead die on the cross as well?

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. Matthew 27:50

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. John 15:30

God left the body of Jesus at His death, so no, God did not die, but it is clear from Scripture that God experienced the Crucifixion and death of Jesus.

Scripture clearly reveals that the son of Mary is God.

[kinsman redeemer]

Sung to Mary:
"Beneath your compassion we take refuge,"

Blasphemy.

Next question, please.

[ealgeone]

The mere title of the thread is proof of catholic worship of Mary. At my church no hymns or prayers are offered to Mary. Nor are there any statutes of Mary. No candles lit in her honor either.

[Iscool]

Their idea of the “early church” was, of course, what their church was like. They were actually ignorant of the facts about the early church, which is understandable as they were Bible only Christians. Consequently they assumed that the early church was just a group of Christians meeting in someone’s home or a simple building to sing songs and have a Bible study.

One of the things they definitely did NOT have was any devotion to the Mother of God. That was a late, Catholic, man made abomination! That was a much later pagan interpolation into the simple Bible based religion!

Except it wasn’t.

I KNEW IT...The bible is wrong...Paul and the apostles were deceivers, liars...I'm glad I found out before it was too late...

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

It's all a big anti-Catholic lie...

[Iscool]

Without belief in the Eucharist, and Mary as Theotakis (Mother of God) and Mother of us all as Christ told us among His last words, there is no Christianity.

Funny, that's not what my Bible says.

But that's the whole point of the article...For Catholics to teach each other that the bible is just a book, that it doesn't represent Christianity...That is has no Christian authority...

[Springfield Reformer]

Observe the following verse:

The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
(John 4:11)

The word "sir" is "kurios," what in many places is translated "lord."  When clearly applied to God, it expresses His supreme authority. But it is not like "theo," which is a specific reference to divinity, His nature as God.  

In the passage above, the woman at the well does not know Jesus at all.  Yet she calls him "kurios."  It was a common title of respect and focused on a person's authority, not divine nature.  Jesus uses the term Himself in His parables as the standard way to refer to figures of authority, such as the master of the vinyard.  Or where He says you cannot serve two masters.  Same word.  The basic idea is "master," person of great authority. Yes, it can be applied to God, but it can be applied as well to any human authority.  We do the same in English: "lord of the manor," etc. It is most certainly NOT the equivalent of the "Theo" in theotokus.

So when Elizabeth calls Mary "mother of my lord," she would have been speaking of Jesus as the Messiah. He was to be the Son of David, the King of Israel, and "kurios" would be an apropos title for Messiah. But her words make no claim that Mary is "mother of God." 

Remember, supposedly, the heresy the council was refuting was the false claim that Jesus acquired His divinity after coming into being physically. The point of "theotokus" was to assure the understanding that no, Jesus was God from the moment He came into being physically. The focus was Christological, not Marian.

And that's what I find intriguing about these debates. I'd bet a large sum of money that most folks on both sides believe the same thing about Jesus, that He always existed in His divine being, that He acquired His humanity in time through being born to Mary, and that there is a unity in His person, such that the divine and human natures, while distinguishable as to attributes, compose a single, seamless Person.  

But these debates do not settle for solving that problem, but push beyond that to argue the status of Mary, which "theotokus" was not intended to do, at all. There are times I truly wish we could rejoice in the truths we hold in common, and resolve our differences in amicable conversation, rather than going incessantly in meaningless little circles powered by a fevered hostility.  Don't people get tired of that? I know I do.

Peace,

SR

[metmom]

Scripture clearly reveals that the son of Mary is God.

Then you are making Mary mother of His divinity, thus making HER God and above God. And it denies His humanity.

Scripture clearly reveals that the son of Mary is *JESUS*.

[metmom]

Their idea of the "early church" was, of course, what their church was like. They were actually ignorant of the facts about the early church, which is understandable as they were Bible only Christians. Consequently they assumed that the early church was just a group of Christians meeting in someone's home or a simple building to sing songs and have a Bible study

Again, criticisms by Catholics of non-Catholic anything runs smack into the word of God.

Acts 2:2-4 "Suddenly there was a sound from heaven like a roaring of a mighty windstorm in the skies above them, and it filled the house where they were meeting." And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,

Acts 5:42 "And every day, in the Temple and in their homes, they continued to teach and preach this message: 'The Messiah you are looking for is Jesus.'"

Acts 20:20 "yet I never shrank from telling you the truth, either publicly or in your homes."

Romans 16:5 "Please give my greetings to the church that meets in their home."

Romans 16:5 Greet also the church in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in Asia.

1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, send you hearty greetings in the Lord.

Colossians 4:15 Give my greetings to the brothers at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.

Philemon 1:1-3 and Apphia our sister and Archippus our fellow soldier, and the church in your house:

[ealgeone]

The Word can be a difficult thing for the rccs!

[Iscool]

The oral tradition tells us that without Mary’s intercession, and belief in the written and oral words that instruct on the Holy Eucharist, there is no salvation.

That is why your oral tradition is Satanic...God teaches us just the opposite of that...

1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

One of the reasons Jesus had the bible written is so we could see which religions teach a false gospel...So of course your religion is going to say the scriptures are false, or incomplete...

We don't have to go to Mary for Salvation...In fact, we will not receive salvation if we try to go thru Mary...

Someone in your religion comes up with a decree and after following the decree for 5 years, it becomes holy oral tradition...

Just a few years after Frank declares remarried Catholics can eat your Eucharist, that will be holy tradition as well...

[Iscool]

Who told you to divide the man from the deity? God didn't. Jesus said when you see Him, you see the Father. He is fully man AND fully divine... there is no division within Him.

So you created God in the likeness of men...You think Jesus actually looks like a human man???

How big is your bible??? Is it big enough to contain this verse???

1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

So it's crystal clear that the disciples do not expect to look like the man/men/humans that they are when they get to glory...

And they KNOW that the real Jesus does not look like the man Jesus they were familiar with...They don't even know if he will look like a man/human because they have never seen Jesus as the 3rd part of the Trinity...

[Iscool]

But nobody can get around what is written that Elizabeth addresses Mary as Mother of my Lord and I doubt anyone could argue context. It's pretty clear that that passage means what it says.

But who is the LORD that the Jewish, non Christian Elisabeth was referring to??? The bible isn't over 30,000 scriptures long for no reason...

[Iscool]

They just pray to her and sing hymns to her.

And can't receive salvation except thru her...

[kinsman redeemer]

The Truth is a pesky thing.
It keeps returning to expose the lies.

[rwa265]

Then you are making Mary mother of His divinity, thus making HER God and above God. And it denies His humanity.

---

I am not making Mary anything. Matthew 1, Luke 1, and John 1 clearly show us, that it is God who made Mary His mother in His humanity.

To say that the son of Mary is God does not make Mary anything more than the woman who conceived and gave birth to the Son of God. You do believe that that Jesus is God, do you not? If so, how could the son of Mary not be God?

[Iscool]

I suppose these Scriptures can be interpreted in various ways, but how can it be said that these verses do not reveal that the child Mary gave birth to was divine?

Mary had no connection to the divinity of Jesus...The divinity of Jesus was not created in Mary...It was placed there by God...

Each one of us has a soul and a spirit...Neither of which was created by the human parents...They are placed withing the human body by God...

You people keep saying you can't separate the humanity from the divinity of Jesus...Of course you can...Well you can't but God can...

If you are a born again Christian, at death your body goes down and your soul and spirit go up...Why would Jesus not have the same ability???

In fact, if Jesus' divine spirit could not have separated from his body, Jesus could not have died...That what death is, when the spirit leaves the body...

[Iscool]

Again, criticisms by Catholics of non-Catholic anything runs smack into the word of God.

It is astounding that on occasion Catholics will post a piece showing us the utter contempt they have for the scriptures...

[metmom]

Because *mother of GOD* says something different than *mother of Jesus*.

If you told someone who had never heard the gospel before that Mary was the mother of God, how could they automatically conclude, *Oh, you mean Jesus*?

Proper teaching on who Jesus is does away with the need to rename Mary, which only leads to more error and on to worship of her, as is admitted in the title of this thread.

Proper teaching of Jesus uses..... ***SCRIPTURE***

It doesn’t happen with more error.

[metmom]

You people keep saying you can't separate the humanity from the divinity of Jesus...

If they can't be separated, then the second person of the Trinity didn't exist until Mary conceived and when Jesus died, the second person of the Trinity died too.