Posted on 07/26/2015 8:55:19 AM PDT by MHGinTN
Here is yet more information, for those who miss the Rapture and are here after the event. This is for people, not any particular congregation of people. Please, think about it ...
Go to your master. Take your spirit of confusion with you.
So flesh man will be in the Kingdom of God?
Not the sort of flesh you are familiar with. Jesus has a body that can eat and drink. He is a being of higher dimensional capabilities than you or me now. But when we see Him we will see Him as He really is because when we see Him we will be like Him. Refer to the Physics lesson Jesus gave to Philip in John 14, to see how this works. If you have questions about it, I will be glad to share a few data points which God has given me over the decades.
I guess I have to laugh when you define my doctrine as "preterist." Either you don't know what a preterist is, or you are not aware that there can be no tribulation of the literal sense described in the Bible until the Spirit-born faithfully committed followers of my Savior have been removed by the resurrection and ascension by His summons to meet him in the air.
If you're going to oppose the pre-millennium doctrine, you at least ought to study it to see if there are any weak points in it, eh?
Give yourself a fair shake if you do not want to be ignored on this issue.
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>> “or you are not aware that there can be no tribulation of the literal sense described in the Bible until the Spirit-born faithfully committed followers of my Savior have been removed by the resurrection” <<
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That is total nonsense!
How can there be a tribulation of the saints if there are no saints?
Or are you conflating Satan’s tribulation of the saints with the wrath of God poured out on those that take the mark?
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You are my spirit of confusion!
Where do you wish to go?
In you confusion, you are conflating the different epoch Saints. The Saints from the Old Testament are not the same as the Saints from the Church age, and the Saints during the Tribulation. I’m just amazed at how bold you are in your errors! I suppose it is understandable since you do not comprehend Salvation by Faith and the differing ways the accounting is done, Old Testament, Church Age, and Tribulation. None will be in Heaven from Earth except by Jesus. He told you that specifically. The way He is Deliverer differs in the three epochs described. During the Church Age, believing that Jesus is The Son of God and ‘your’ personal Savior by His work on the Cross and in Heaven, and God puts His holy Spirit of Promise int he believer. It is that indwelling Holy Spirit of Promise Who acts as Restrainer during the Church Age. He and His restraining influence will be taken out of the way for the Tribulation to begin (2 Thess 2:7). Study to show yourself approved a workman worthy.
There are not “different epoch saints!”
That is Dispy comic book nonsense.
All saints will be gathered on the same day, from the beginning, to the end of grace at the last trump.
There is no “Church age” simply because there is no church.
Ekklesia is not a church, but his assembly, or congregation.
It includes all who will ever be saved.
The Holy Spirit will not be “taken out of the way” at any time. As long as there are mortal believers on Earth, the Holy Spirit will be here. That is a promise that Yeshua will not break.
The one taken out of the way is Satan, who will be cast out of the presence of the Father at the beginning of the 70th week.
That Dispy nonsense is what is confusing your beliefs. It is nowhere to be found in the scriptures.
I desperately desire to relieve you of this deep darkness.
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And I will reply to you as Jesus said to Peter, Matthew 16:23. Your Rood ness is showing.
I am not trying to be rude to you.
I am trying to show you the unedited word of God, that you might be one of the “few.”
Dispensationalism is just as much the work of Satan as Roman catholicism and mormonism is.
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Your slip is showing. I did not say "flesh and blood" -- I said "flesh and bone." Whereas in the old body, life was in the blood--as long as it was being oxygenated, protein- and fat-enriched, flowing, waste products being removed. That was. But now, life is in the spirit, and that is what now moves the bodies of those resurrected from the dead ones. Surely you can figure this out from Scripture:
"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Lk. 24:39 AV).
Jesus was not a spirit, wraith, or insubstantial ghost. H was and still is a real walking, talking, eating, fighting, loving, perfected Human, representing the future race of real brethren we will emulate in body, soul, and spirit.
Please, in the future, please save me some time by checking your doctrinr out thoroughly before you try to correct others. I am willing to help you out, when you begin to display an open Berean-type mind and attitude. In His new post-Resurrection body Jesus walked with his uncle Cleopas who was most likely accompanied by His mother Mary's sister (whose name was also Mary), in His flesh-and-bone body, yet they did not recognize Him. After pumping them for their take on the recent happenings, after evaluating them He gave His estimate of their mindset, and began to disciple them anew:
"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" (Lk. 24:25-27 AV).
They did not recognize Him in this glorified, but not astoundingly different flesh-and-bone Spirit-animated body until they saw the blueness of the wounds in His hands as He gave thanks according to His customary way, and broke bread (not unleavened) for them, then just--vanished!
Now, what value do you think He would put on the untutored chattering you've been doing? You're just as accountable to Him as I am, so we'd better watch out how we handle His Written Word!
Why don't you read John 21:1-22 where the risen Jesus made a fire, caught and cooked some fish together with theirs, and cross-examined Peter as to whether he was yet in enough of a faithful frame of mind to stat to claim Jesus rather than deny any association with Him. I see no haloes described there, nor anybody dressed in fancy clothes except maybe a white tunic or two. Wasn't Jesus reunified with a flesh-and-bone permanent eternal body there on the Gennesaret seashore?
And did not Mary Magdalene recognize a normal, bipedal, ordinarily clothed human person there at Golgotha, recognizing the person as Jesus only when He addressed her as her Beloved Rabbi customarily did?
Now, take it from John who had seen Him during those forty days of validation of His resurrection, did not John say with authority as he wrote to the believers he had discipled:
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ" (1 Jn. 1-3 AV).
My FRiend, John and his fellow disciples saw, heard, and toucherd him both before and after His cross-death and rebirth from the dead ones. If someone refutes that Jesus was then and still is a full-fleshed human with skeletal construction, and in Heaven, sitting at the right hand of The Father in a flesh body, and that we can have confidence in a Man representing us in God's Heaven, it certainly indicates that the person's religious education is defective. Furthermore:
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn. 3:2 AV).
If that person is not aware that he is to have the same kind of flesh-and-bone eternally living Spirit-activated body, inaugurated at the moment of rising to meet the Lord in the air and being translated--in the simultitude as Enoch and Elijah--his/her very salvation comes into question, and he/she needs to take inventory:
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in The Faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? " (2 Cor. 13:5 AV; my emphasis, The Faith here should be capitalized as a proper noun and articulate for specificity of The Only Saving Faith).
A person willung to improve his/her education in the Gospel might perform a search on the AV text for the string "in the faith."
So much for now, FRiend.
OK, Bro, I have been fully aware of this for some time.
I realize that I need toevaluate him as a person of eternal value with an erroneous temporal platform, and deal with it accordingly. I am willing to be patient up to a point that the Lord say, "OK, you've contended for The Faith. Now, relinquish him and let me have him. I'll test his willingness to give up a false doctrine."
It's just that He's far more patient than I am, plus He's in a position to see that the Biblical truths are driven home, if possible. I am not.
But thanks for the hint --
But I've been down this road so many times that I know the hidden differences spring out of the conflict between our diametrically opposed approaches: on he one hand complete, instantaneous justification by faith alone, on the work and shed blood of Jesus alone, bringing imputation of Jesus' righteousness to the believer (as God with foresight discerns the believer's persistent trust), given by His inviolable, utterly reliable Written Word alone; whereas on the other hand your unscriptural point of view of justification as a process with no salvation security in Jesus and His Preserved Word, but in the end it all hinges on one's own effort: baptismal regeneration, an unsaved human seeking after God, earning one's way to heaven, a second chance after death, and supererogatory works coppering the risky bet of salutatory morality tipping the scales.
We can't agree, so let's just leave it at that.
OK. Got it.
OK. Got it.
Perhaps, but a study of the passages using harpadzo will give you greater illumination. Take Philip:
"And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea" (Ac. 8:39-40 AV).
Philip started out with a temporal, physical body, and wound up with eggzakly the same --- Why don't you go and catalogue the different ways in which αρπάζω (harpadzo, Strong's Greek dictionary number 526) is used. Maybe your viewpoint will be a bit modified.
Your use of this passage is incredibly erroneous, my FRiend!
Why don’t you just come to grips with the fact that you’re amplifying an incomplete description of the event, and trying to press it as doctrine.
You simply have little understanding of the scriptures.
You are voicing the great Gnostic error here. When Jehovah was incarnated, he became both fuuly Divine and fully human forever. the qualities and features are thoroughly integrated and inseparable for the rest of eternity.
Anything else is demonstrably heretical.
You don't really want to take this position, do you??
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I got the message a long time ago:
That which you don’t understand is “erroneous.”
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