Posted on 07/24/2015 7:31:26 AM PDT by don-o
A Catholic priest once told me something an older priest said to him at a party for his archdiocese’s seminarians headed off to study at the North American College in Rome: “Those poor boys. They leave here in love with Jesus, and come home in love with the Church.”
(Excerpt) Read more at theamericanconservative.com ...
The lower case "s" prompts my question. Do you believe this:
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
Thank you and bless you!
Savior is not his name, it is his current office. His name is Yeshua, which I always capitalize.
Interesting points. I don’t know to what extent the phenomenon he describes, “The Church, or Christ?” (Lose the comma, please.) is a thing. I can’t, offhand, think of anyone to whom I would ascribe that attitude.
However, the article he was quoting reminded me that I’ve often thought the Catholic Church is not user-friendly. If I were to invite a non-Christian with no experience of the Church to attend Mass, it’s unlikely that she would come away from it with much sense of the basic premises of Christianity. That’s not to say it isn’t there, but it isn’t presented in a simple, organized fashion that’s easily accessible to someone starting from zero.
And that’s not to say that it should be, in that context, or in the context of an Orthodox Divine Liturgy. However, at some point, the simple, organized, easily-accessible presentation of the Gospel has to be provided.
From my own experience as a Catholic, nothing has ever overshadowed the basic understanding that drew me to the Church: that I am a sinner who deserves death for my rejection of God, and that Jesus is my Savior. To that, over more than 20 years, I’ve added the understanding that Jesus is my *everything*, when everything else fails.
Do you believe this:
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.
The Assembly, or “Body” is not a human corporation, and owns no properties, nor institutions.
It has but one Priest, Yeshua, although his word calls all of its members priests unto themselves.
It is invisible as to the whole, but becomes visible in the actions of the individual.
The Holy Spirit is its only educational institution and teacher.
It is human nature to crave the power, but Yeshua cautioned against yielding to that corrupting desire.
However, there must be some order to the assembly. There are those with the gift of teaching, as the apostles taught. There are those who are to be servant ministers to the assembly, such as pastors and overseers. And the Body cannot function without its members working together. As Jesus put it, where 2 or 3 assembled, He is in their midst.
What you offer there is mostly man conceived, not as he is described in the word of God.
Yes I believe that Yeshua is the only ‘begotten’ son of the Father. He said that they are one, and I believe him.
The Word of God says nothing of his substance, so we cannot go there authoritatively. We know from the Word that without the son was nothing made that was made. That is enough for me to know on that subject.
I am in agreement with your statement as far as it goes.
But we must accept that the apostles were removed from this world, and none will serve us until Daniel’s 70th week begins.
Thank you. I understand your position better now.
Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Acts
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Acts
2...by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;…
Mattthew
…21”Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22”Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23”And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Of course, your "man conceived" beliefs are right. Isn't that pretty much it?
Ever wonder why the Great Commission did not say: "Go into all the world and hand out Bibles"?
Ditto to your: “Sometimes it seems to me that forests are missed on account of the trees.”
I’m thinking this premise was not always true. Piety and devout practices, and the old prayers were not a pathological symptom, but a manifestation of the heart— a vertical bond between the people and God.
In the Western seminaries of VII stripe, all the above were systematically diluted, replaced with the rise of the “political Church” whose theme is on man and horizontal relations with the interests of man.
All sorts of mysterious and intriguing reasons this inversion was allowed to ever occur have already been posited, but truly, the Church of old is unrecognizable today and everyone knows it. Some are thrilled, some are devastated and some are too stupid to notice the ramifications of any of it on the faith and the Church of Christ Jesus.
"Church without Christ". I realize Rod is talking about something much more subtle, e.g. immersion in the liturgical arts or the intellectual tradition, or even "Christian civilization" rather than Christ, or even "the Bible" rather than Christ, but...
((((Sigh...))))
One way I can see this "Church without Christ" phenomenon in Catholicism is the attachment to quasi-church quasi-public institutions where Christ is not Lord, is not the Landlord and is not even welcome as a tenant. The Christlessness of "Catholic" colleges and Universities is almost too obvious to dwell on: I want Ignatius of Loyola to rise from the grave, stride over to those "in the Jesuit tradition" University rectors and slap them upside the head.
The same goes for parochial primary and secondary schools which neither evangelize nor catechize; Catholic Charities and Catholic Relief Services hanging from the teats of the omnicompetent Sow State; the Catholic Health Association affiliates that are just begging to be "forced" to violate their "principles" ("Go on, twist my arm").
That'll all be swept away...
but in all things may Christ be glorified.
You, of all people, know that Yeshua, His name, MEANS "God saves," i.e. Savior.
How would you know any thing at all that Jesus said had it not been written down??? How would your priests teach the gospel without books??? Or your Catechism??? Why did God have the OT prophets write down what he said???
These are very good thoughts, Claud.
If you're a horn-dog, the Devil will try to get you with horniness, but if you're a Church Lady, the devil will try to get you with churchiness.
If you're a moral type, he'll try to get you addicted to high-proof moral indignation (hotter than hard liquor, I can tell you).
Some people would be in a real dilemma if they were faced with a choice between Gehenna with Gregorian chant or Heaven with Marty Haugen.
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