True, and what did God say? We don't know. Point is that there is no indication that they sought forgiveness, nor received it. Let's hope they did. Jesus prayed that that a future event would occur. That is the capacity to forgive. I get that. But if no repentance is necessary for God's forgiveness, then there is no Hell and I don't quite understand Baptism or for that matter Christianity.
I don’t think so, because personal forgiveness isn’t really related to justice that society metes out. What would happen if you took it to its logical end would simply be that you wouldn’t be keeping track of who wronged you and how, and you’d just get on with living your life.
What is just is just, you cannot have one standard for the state and another for the individual. If Christians are to forgive all sins immediately and unconditionally, then Christians cannot create an entity to punish those individuals. That makes no sense. That is a just a convenient way to skirt the issue.
And not holding grudges is not the same as forgiveness. I am blessed in being almost incapable of holding a grudge, yet I do not forgive unrepentant transgressors. I find the notion silly. Forgiveness is the act of accepting repentance. I cannot accept that which is not offered.
“True, and what did God say?”
It doesn’t matter how the Father responded, for the purposes of this question. All that matters is that Jesus Christ showed us that we can forgive those who continue to sin against us, and those who mock us and are unrepentant, and we can even beg forgiveness on their behalf to our Father. This is the example set for us by the Lord.
“But if no repentance is necessary for God’s forgiveness...”
We’re not talking about God forgiving, but about ourselves, so we don’t need to be speculating about that.
“What is just is just, you cannot have one standard for the state and another for the individual.”
Of course you can, because I, the individual, am the only one who determines what is just for me personally. I can decide to forgive or not forgive based on whatever standard pleases me, for it is my business and my business alone. When it comes to the state, that argument cannot be made, because the state’s decisions on justice impact everyone.
“If Christians are to forgive all sins immediately and unconditionally, then Christians cannot create an entity to punish those individuals. That makes no sense.”
No, what makes no sense is to think that because I have forgiven someone, the state shouldn’t punish them. That is nonsensical. When someone commits a crime, they have trespassed against both the victim and society as a whole. The victim can forgive his portion of the debt, but that doesn’t forgive society’s portion, because the individual has no right to forgive that debt.
“And not holding grudges is not the same as forgiveness.”
Well, they are very closely related. It is not possible to hold grudges if you have forgiven those who sinned against you, and it is not possible to forgive all who sinned against you and still hold grudges.
“Forgiveness is the act of accepting repentance.”
No it is not. Repentance is the act of turning away from sin, of changing your behavior. It is not the act of asking forgiveness, although the two hopefully should go hand in hand. Someone can repent and never ask forgiveness, or they can ask forgiveness and not repent. I can also forgive if forgiveness is not asked for, and if repentance is lacking.
For example, say you owe me a debt of 100,000 dollars. I can forgive that debt even if you are too proud to come to me and tell me that you can’t repay and ask my forgiveness. It’s entirely my prerogative to forgive, you do not need to do anything in order to receive it.