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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; metmom; Kolokotronis; Elsie; Kandy Atz
The only reason they had the Scriptures back then and why you have them today, is that the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church ( both Greek and Latin believers ) received the books, copied the books and examined the books in light of the oral Apostolic Faith they received in order to determine which books were canonical and which were spurious.

The there was no Roman Catholic church when the scriptures were written ... the writings were preserved by later christians... but to assume they would recognize what one calls the "One holy, apostolic church " one deludes themselves..

109 posted on 07/16/2015 8:11:10 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
" but to assume they would recognize what one calls the "One holy, apostolic church " one deludes themselves.. "

Got to disagree with that, Momof7. The Creed adopted at the 1st Ecumenical Council in 324 proclaimed in closing:

"Τοὺς δὲ λέγοντας, ὅτι ἦν ποτε ὅτε οὐκ ἦν, καὶ πρὶν γεννηθῆναι οὐκ ἦν, καὶ ὅτι ἐξ οὐκ ὄντων ἐγένετο, ἢ ἐξ ἑτέρας ὑποστάσεως ἢ οὐσίας φάσκοντας εἶναι, [ἢ κτιστόν,] τρεπτὸν ἢ ἀλλοιωτὸν τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ θεοῦ, [τούτους] ἀναθεματίζει ἡ καθολικὴ [καὶ ἀποστολικὴ] ἐκκλησία."

"But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'— they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church"

And at the 2nd Ecumenical Council in 381, it was proclaimed that:

"Πιστεύομεν...Εἰς μίαν, ἁγίαν, καθολικὴν καὶ ἀποστολικὴν ἐκκλησίαν· ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν· προσδοκοῦμεν ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν, καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος. Ἀμήν."

"We believe...In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

BTW, don't get too hung up on the word "catholic". In these contexts the word means "universal". It has nothing to do with Rome (or Alexandria or Moscow or Constantinople). Finally, the 381 version is the one we recite, in Greek, at every Divine Liturgy. For me it's neat to pray in the exact words my people have been using for almost 1700 years.

113 posted on 07/16/2015 8:56:09 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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