Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
I’m sorry to hear of your health problems. Its amazing how you go along and everything seems fine and then you get hit with everything at once! I got diagnosed with 4 different things in one month. Its the things with family members that have hurt me, I don’t worry about myself.
I get upset about the bigotry I perceive towards Catholics. I truly don’t understand it. I grew up Southern Baptist. Just because I later chose to become Catholic doesn’t mean I have animosity towards Baptists. And I don’t believe they are a cult and I don’t believe they’re not Christians and I don’t believe they’re all going to hell. Thays why it upsets me so much. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. That’s all I want. But if everyone is honest it is true that the majority of Protestants post anti Catholic threads instead of posting posts that are related to protestant issues.
For example, a while back, there was an article posted that the SBC stated they would not perform same sex marriage. I commented to offer praise. I could have posted yeah right I’ll believe it when I see it, which is probably what a protestant would post on a Catholic thread. There is very much a double standard.
It obviously necessitates understanding “What is Love?”
Paul has some good things to say about love in his letter to the Ephesians.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. So [also] husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “For this reason a man shall leave [his] father and [his] mother
and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church. In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband. Ephesians 5:25-33
Actually the majority of posts on the religion forum have RC posters.. protestant posts have tended to be spiritual reflections, exerts from Christian books.. or Doctrinal debate threads ...we do not hide behind the "caucus" label
There is an opportunity for individuals to defend or explain their doctrine,,
When Paul speaks of ‘Christ and the church’ do you think he is referring to the spiritual church or the Catholic institution?
If you want "fellowship" find an RC forum .. FR is a news and debate forum...
We have read the anathemas
This county is facing incredible challenges now and Christians should not be fighting among themselves.
There is a huge difference ... but perhaps you are correct and it might be best to avoid debate threads
Paul is speaking of the the followers of Jesus that make up His church. We are many separated brethren at this time, but in God’s time He will bring us together as His one church.
I started seeing double about 3 years ago. I had no idea what was causing it but my regular eye dr wanted me to see a special eye surgeon. She operated on my right eye which worked great for a few weeks and then I started seeing double again. After the first surgery on that eye, she told me I had torn 2 muscles in that eye when I fell about 3 years ago. Well, I ended up having another surgery to correct that problem which was caused by scar tissue plus had surgery on the other eye. Then, she wants me to see a special eye lid surgeon because of my droopy lids. I see this dr Monday. My regular eye dr wants me to see another dr to see if I can be fitted with a lens in that eye. Had never heard of using one. Now, all this stress has caused a bad costochondritis flare up. I told the dr’s office I feel like I am having a heart attack. She wanted me to go to the ER but t know what it is and has nothing to do with my heart. It seems like when I turned 70, I started really falling apart. : ). The joys of getting older. It did not help having 2 family members die recently. One was 109 years old who was my mom’s cousin. My mom died in 2006 a few months before her 103rd birthday. The other was a cousin a few years older than I. It is no fun
being the older generation! We do not have anyone to get advice from.
There is a huge difference ... but perhaps you are correct and it might be best to avoid debate threads
I’m an old man and sometimes I need to ask things like ‘does that mean you believe Paul meant the spiritual church, or an institution’, because in my mind there is significant difference, one of spiritual significance. In an institutional church there are spiritually righteous and spiritually not righteous people. Was Paul referring to the spiritual Bride of Christ, or the institutional gathering of saved and not yet saved?
“Even if [the Pope an incarnate devil], we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom... He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope.” —Catherine of Siena
I am not playing games... The Roman church denied the gospel in Trent ....I asked a serious question... what is the gospel that Rome teaches ?
Amen!
Bringing forth good fruit is essential to Salvation as Christ Himself stated it in spite of Protestantism teaching that Christ was wrong and any requirement to bring forth good fruit is "works salvation".
So, are you saying you think that should be listed in the things one must do to be saved according to the Catholic Church teachings? Should we add works as an addition to the absolute requirements to obtain Salvation?
Sorry I had not pinged you. Did not mean to leave you out, just can’t remember all those who have posted on threads like these.
And being cast into the fire isn't being cast into Hell, everyone gets their own little fire. Now, is that the purging fire of Purgatory or an individual eternal fire like the Daryl Fire, the Bubba Fire, the Dwayne Fire, and so on ?
Actually, I was making a serious request.
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