OK, Mrs. Don-o,
First, I continue to appreciate you.
In regards to your posted items. I am not telling YOU what YOU believe. In fact, you selected items that I didn’t even post to you. No wonder I didn’t know what you referred to in your earlier post.
I am discussing the Catholic Church teachings. You may not like my statements. No problem. There are some of yours I don’t like either. That is what discussions are about.
If I ever say “you believe...”, and it turns out you don’t, go ahead and gripe at me. You have reason.
In this case, the things you’re describing are my explanation of why Catholicism has such error, to a completely different person. I not only do not apologize for that, I think you are misrepresenting my intent - which is at best assuming what I believe - since you cannot read my mind.
I have no idea what is in an individual Catholic FReeper’s brain. I don’t pretend to. Under the Religion Forum guidelines, found at the RM’s page, it says in these discussions we are free to characterize what a group believes. I am doing so.
“That is the whole offense in a nutshell: ascribing beliefs to me and to other Catholics, based not on the actual teachings of the Catholic Church, but upon your own unfortunate misunderstandings; and then, what’s really unjustifiable, failing to correct this once it’s pointed out to you.”
Not you. Not any individual catholic named. Catholicism in general and the group of members known as Catholics. You can point out things. That is a discussion. I am not required to believe your opinion about what you point out.
Then there is this...
“You even repeat the falsehoods, even after being informed that that’s not what we believe. That’s rude, and aggravating.”
I will continue to do so, knowing from my perspective they are not falsehoods. That someone would “inform” me that in there view Catholics believe something different, is interesting and could be discussed, but it doesn’t change the underlying reality.
You may be aggravated seeing Catholic beliefs characterized this way. Great. Perhaps you will see them in a new light, apart from the echo-chamber of rome.
In summary:
Mary IS a demigoddess to Catholics and is treated that way.
They DO idolize Mary, bowing before her. Please read the definition of “idolize.”
Works as a basis of salvation DO put people - good and sincere people - on a hamster wheel of works. Catholics as a group LIVE on the Celestial Hamster Wheel of Works and Guilt.
Religion DOES separate people from the Gospel of Grace and the secure relationship of a son with eternal life.
The accretions of millennia in Catholicism are the accretions of syncratic pagan practices and beliefs. Heck, many of Catholic popes were not believers in Christ.
You go on to write...
“That same thing seems to be happening here with Mary: you don’t understand the image, so you proclaim your own wrong-headed notion, and identify that to be what I believe.”
No. How would you know what I understand, unless you are telling me what I believe?? I see what Catholics do, teach, believe and respond from my knowledge of Christ and the Scriptures. Again, not what YOU believe. I refer to the group.
“Did you ask me first?”
I was not writing to you Mrs. Don-O.
“Did you ask any Catholic whether this was a true account of their beliefs?”
I grew up Catholic and have studied the teachings of Catholicism. Alter boy. Confirmed. I readily admit they do not see what they are doing and would tell you something different. So did I before Christ opened my eyes.
“As I said, I don’t mind at all if you tell me what your beliefs are. I do mind when you tell me what MY beliefs are, especially when you’ve got it wrong. “
And we are back to the main point - I’m not telling you what YOU believe. All I know about what you believe is what you post and defend. Even that, I only assume you believe what you post and defend.
We are not here to discuss what you believe. We are hear discussing Catholicism and what it does and in this instance, how what it teaches and does is not a Christian belief.
None of that is meant as a personal insult to any individual. I can not keep them from taking things personally, even when they are not intended in any personal way. IF this is an issue for any person, the RM suggests they stick to Caucus Threads.
You seem to have a bee up your back this past couple days in your posts. I hope you are well. I wish you well.
Kindest Regards
AMPU
cc: Religion Moderator pinged because I mentioned his/her name
(In contrast to the Blessed Virgin Mary, who Elsie has calculated can process 139 requests per second, if Catholics are praying as they ought!)
"That was a joke, son!" --- quote from Foghorn Leghorn.
Anyhow, the aggravation caused by Fun-House Mirror reflections about what Catholics believe --- proffered without asking actual Catholics, of course, why would a person want to do that?? --- remind me not to similarly offend by speculating about what Protestants believe.
Which is always a much dicier proposition anyways, since you don't have a nice concise Catechism, like we'all have. And "The Fundamentals" (the collection of twelve books on "fundamental" Protestant theology published in 1910) is something I don't actually intend to read. Ever.
Though in Purgatory I might have a couple of years to burn through.... :o)
As to your expertise about Catholicism, you say:
"I grew up Catholic and have studied the teachings of Catholicism. Alter boy. Confirmed."
I'm---
Well.
In all charity, what can I say?
Good Lord. I'm ducking out now. My squash plants are all pregnant. I have to go tuck some mulch under their sweet little bottoms and watch them grow.
Love,
Mrs. Don-o