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To: HossB86
The only blood that saves is Christ's shed blood on the cross, not in some unbiblical ritual that Roman Cultists practice.

That ritual was established by Jesus Christ and is in the Bible:

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, l for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins. (Matthew 25:26-28)
It is really a shame that there are so many who are embarrassed by the words of our Lord that they have to find rationalizations to deny them.

When we're saved, we are regenerated by the power of God Almighty; we have his Holy Spirit -- he makes us new, resurrects our dead souls to eternal life. His life in us is his Holy Spirit given to us through faith by grace.

And I thought that you knew the Bible:

Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit. (Acts 8:14-17)

While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior of the country and came (down) to Ephesus where he found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the holy Spirit when you became believers?” They answered him, “We have never even heard that there is a holy Spirit.” He said, “How were you baptized?” They replied, “With the baptism of John.” Paul then said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid [his] hands on them, the holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. (Acts 19:1-6)

They had faith but had yet to receive the Holy Spirit.
74 posted on 06/23/2015 12:49:40 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

The commandment was FOR ALL THEIR GENERATIONS and as far as I can tell Jesus was in those generations through Mary. If Jesus had violated that commandment on Passover night, BEFORE the blood was shed to seal the covenant, well then Jesus would not have been the lamb without spot or blemish. Look at the passage in Luke 22. Compare it to the passages you keep pushing to support this heretical drinking of blood. Is God double-minded? No? well then, how do you reconcile / comprehend the different passages to be of the same meaning? By knowing the wording is a classic use of metaphor. You need not ignore the generations of Jesus, the commandment repeated in the old Testament, and the Times of The Lord to find a common ground for the seemingly disparate passages.


75 posted on 06/23/2015 1:12:30 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: Petrosius

Back up to Cornelius......


76 posted on 06/23/2015 1:15:38 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Petrosius
As eagleone has adeptly pointed out, what do you do with the household of Cornelius? The Holy Spirit came into them even as Peter preached, without even a clue of spoken words just the belief in their hearts. To reconcile the two, you passages of having the hands laid on and receiving the Holy Spirti and the Holy Spirit coming while just the belief is in their hearts, you need to understand the reality of Salvation by faith alone.

Cornelius was a Roman Centurion. He and his household had been observing the Jewsih religious system, with faith. When they heard the truth coming out of Peter's mouth regarding the Messiah, they believed the Messaih had come and Peter was telling them about Him. Their belief resulted in God's Life coming into them. How could this bee, if they were still sinners in God's sight? ... Perfect sinless blood upon the Mercy Seat in Heaven covers the law of sin and death, once for all, forever.

But what of the ones who had hands laid on to receive the Holy Spirit, you might now ask? Well, only God knows what was happening in the hearts of those folks, but we can be assured that God's Life would not come into them unless their alignment to the laws of sin and death had been covered by His Precious blood and His sacrifice for the penalty due them had been counted for them, and activated by faith in Him, not works. So it may be (conjecture here, not claiming divine knowledge) that when the Life of God in Paul and the other Apostles comes into their presence, their trust in God to be Savior and Lord is transformed into spiritual faithing in the Promise of God.

Recall that the Baptism of John was fro repentance. Until the Mercy Seat has The Perfect blood upon it, there is no covering of sin and death that is permanent. That's why the Jewish High Priest enter each year to perform the ritual. Those who had repented under John's Baptism had yet to hear the Gospel preached and thus have the belief in Jesus as Messiah actualized in their human souls. Perhaps that's why Jesus command us to go into all the world and preach that same Gospel, for it has the spiritual power to spark faith in Him as Savior and Lord so He will place His Life in you.

77 posted on 06/23/2015 1:37:19 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: Petrosius
That ritual was established by Jesus Christ and is in the Bible:

If you mean partaking in The Lord's Supper, doing this (eating bread and drinking wine) IN REMEMBRANCE of Christ...yes. If you mean the Roman Cult's re-sacrifice of Christ then... No.

I do read the Bible. You ought to try it sometime:

Ephesians 2:8-10
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

Romans 3:21-26
"21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus"

John 6:44-46
"44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life."

John 14:6
"6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Galatians 2: 15-21
"15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified[b] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness[c] were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."

Romans 8:26-30
"15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified[b] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. 17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness[c] were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose"

And more , and more, and more. Not church fathers, but God's holy, perfect, and inerrant word.

Again, I urge YOU to read it prayerfully, for it is my prayer that the Lord open your heart to his truth.

Hoss

90 posted on 06/23/2015 2:11:31 PM PDT by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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To: Petrosius

Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit. (Acts 8:14-17)
While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior of the country and came (down) to Ephesus where he found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the holy Spirit when you became believers?” They answered him, “We have never even heard that there is a holy Spirit.” He said, “How were you baptized?” They replied, “With the baptism of John.” Paul then said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid [his] hands on them, the holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. (Acts 19:1-6)

They had faith but had yet to receive the Holy Spirit.


Well, one who has faith has the Holy Spirit, as one is impossible without the other. See e.g. 1 Cor. 12:3. And one who has been baptized receives the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38, John 3:5.

Now I don’t speak Greek, so I rely on those who do. And I’ll try to relay my understanding as best I can. The word here for “falling upon” them is epipipto, which literally means to fall down or to crash into. It’s a word that’s only used a couple of times in the entire New Testament. This is NOT the same word that Luke uses to indicate receiving the Holy Spirit in other places in the Bible, e.g., with Baptism/coming to faith (including Acts 2). So Luke’s use of a different word indicates something different than “just” the “normal” receiving the Holy Spirit is happening here.

The context is always in connection with 1) the laying on of hands, and 2) in a brand new Christian community. (e.g., Samaria, Cornelius’s house...) What do you need in a new Christian community, especially one founded by missionaries (like Stephen)? You’ll need pastors for the new church there. And notice only the apostles/pastors create the new pastors (Stephen didn’t). And the laying on of hands has always been for the ordaining of new pastors.

So each time this occurs, it’s the ordination of new pastors for the new Christian communities, whereby these communities receive the Holy Spirit in this new way that they hadn’t before.

Thus endeth my understanding 8-) Is it right? It makes sense, anyway.


165 posted on 06/23/2015 7:34:22 PM PDT by CraigEsq
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