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To: ADSUM
Your comment >>:”The immaculate conception, by admission of catholic apologists, cannot be found or be supported by Scripture.<,

No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture.

http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6056";

But you left out:

But the first scriptural passage which contains the promise of the redemption, mentions also the Mother of the Redeemer. The sentence against the first parents was accompanied by the Earliest Gospel ( Proto-evangelium ), which put enmity between the serpent and the woman : “and I will put enmity between thee and the woman and her seed; she (he) shall crush thy head and thou shalt lie in wait for her (his) heel” ( Genesis 3:15 )

I left it out as the first sentence says it all. Yet catholics plow right ahead and try to find something in the text that's not there. And then they twist the scripture to read something that's not there to make it fit the narrative.

They reference a early writing that was rejected by the early church in the Earliest Gospel ( Proto-evangelium).

If this text is so crucial to Catholicism and Mary then why didn't the rcc include it in the canon at Trent when they had the chance??

I'm not even going to go into Luke 1:28 as there is nothing in this text that says Mary was immaculately conceived and neither do the other texts catholics cite.

Again, the burden is on catholicism to show with crystal clarity where the text says Mary was immaculately conceived or assumed, etc.

That the pope had to wait until 1854 to make this "dogma", and it was only after a groundswell of the laity and clergy petitioning him for this that he made this dogma.

Really....the vicar of Christ has to wait until public opinion wants something and then he declares it dogma??

If it was as clear as catholics contend, this would have been put to bed very, very early in the life of the church.

That is wasn't speaks volumes.

It's a good thing Paul wasn't swayed by public opinion in Galatians and his other writings as easily as the pope was.

194 posted on 06/13/2015 12:57:51 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Your comment: “ If it was as clear as catholics contend, this would have been put to bed very, very early in the life of the church.

That is wasn’t speaks volumes. “

So do you just make up your opinion without facts?

The Immaculate Conception of Mary has been with the Catholic Church since the beginning:

The Fathers of the Church taught that Mary received a number of distinctive blessings in order to make her a more fitting mother for Christ and the prototypical Christian (follower of Christ). These blessings included her role as the New Eve (corresponding to Christ’s role as the New Adam), her Immaculate Conception, her spiritual motherhood of all Christians, and her Assumption into heaven. These gifts were given to her by God’s grace. She did not earn them, but she possessed them nonetheless.

Among others:

The Ascension of Isaiah

“[T]he report concerning the child was noised abroad in Bethlehem. Some said, ‘The Virgin Mary has given birth before she was married two months.’ And many said, ‘She has not given birth; the midwife has not gone up to her, and we heard no cries of pain’” (Ascension of Isaiah 11 [A.D. 70]).

The Odes of Solomon

“So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored and bore the Son, but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose. And she did not seek a midwife, because he caused her to give life. She bore as a strong man, with will . . . “ (Odes of Solomon 19 [A.D. 80]).

Justin Martyr

“[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).

Irenaeus

“Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according


213 posted on 06/13/2015 5:51:48 PM PDT by ADSUM
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