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To: ADSUM
Originally we were discussing the baptism of desire, etc. in post 85 to which you posted a reply in post 142 below.

Your question: “Can you show where this is supported in the Word?”

Luke 23 Do you remember the story of the good thief who died next to Jesus?

* Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us.” 40The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, “Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? 41And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal.”v 42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”w 43He replied to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

And now your question:

How does Jesus actions support the Roman Empire?

The good thief being asked to be remembered is not baptism and is a false assertion of what the Word is saying. If anything it would be a profession of faith by the thief.

That he spoke up for Jesus is not a "work". That is not what saved him. It would have been the belief in Christ that did.

He had little choice in whether he accepted his punishment. Rome was going to execute him for his crimes. What his words indicate is he did recognize he was a criminal and he is receiving the punishment for his crimes.

His crimes had nothing to do with the catholic position of mortal or venial sins.

Again, not everything in written in the Bible, Catholics follow tradition as we were commanded by God.

Can you show clearly in the Word where we are told to follow tradition? And keep it in the context of the passage.

No Christian has ever claimed everything about Christ or the disciples has been written down. What Christians do reject is the catholic reliance on tradition and equating it with equal authority of the written Word.

If you allow for the acceptance of "tradition" you open up the door to Mormons, Islam, the Hindu, etc.

Catholic tradition has also introduced all of the false teachings on Mary.

This is why Christians reject the roman catholic appeal to tradition. So much of it goes against the written Word.

It is clear that the oral teaching of Christ would last until the end of time. “’But the word of the Lord abides for ever.’ That word is the good news which was preached to you” (1 Pet. 1:25). Note that the word has been “preached”—that is, communicated orally. This would endure. It would not be supplanted by a written record like the Bible (supplemented, yes, but not supplanted), and would continue to have its own authority.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of Christ (Romans 10:17).

The Word is usually preached orally as we witness every Sunday. I don't think any disagree with this.

The message the disciples preached was the Gospel. We have the written word for that. John notes it twice.

The NT books were written for different reasons....but in all cases they point to Christ and how to have a relationship with Him.

We have no need of any additional "tradition" to share the Gospel...especially when the "tradition" that is being espoused goes against the Word.

161 posted on 06/13/2015 8:44:23 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Your comment: “Can you show clearly in the Word where we are told to follow tradition? And keep it in the context of the passage. “

Tradition is based on the Word of God, the oral teachings of Jesus and does not contradict the Bible.

1Peter1 25 “ but the word of the Lord remains forever.”

Mark 13:24-32Heaven and earth will pass away,
but my words will not pass away.

“I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you” (1 Cor. 11:2).

“Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us” (2 Tim. 1:13-14).

“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” (2 Thess. 2:15)

“You, then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2 Tim. 2:1-2).

“First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God” (2 Peter 1:20-21).

“‘Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink, but I hope to come to see you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete” (2 John 12).

From Catholic Answers:
The Catholic Church bases her teaching upon one source: The word of God. This divine revelation is transmitted in two ways: through Scripture and apostolic tradition. Many assume that only the writings of the apostles are the word of God. However, their oral transmission of the faith is also considered the word of God (1 Thess. 2:13). Few Protestant groups today accept the validity, let alone the authority, of tradition. In fact, many believe that Scripture is the only definitive source of divine truth. For this reason, they are critical of certain doctrines of the Catholic Church, which, according to them, have no basis in Scripture. In fact, those who embrace the theory of sola scriptura attempt to use the Bible to contradict, to prove baseless, certain Church teachings, such as the Real Presence and the existence of purgatory.


168 posted on 06/13/2015 10:12:07 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ealgeone

Your comment: “That he spoke up for Jesus is not a “work”. That is not what saved him. It would have been the belief in Christ that did. “

That the good thief spoke was an action proclaiming his faith to Christ and to others. Yes his faith in Christ saved him, yet his spoken word (action – Webster’s “ a thing done”) confirmed his faith. Baptism is the profession of faith that is the entry point of following Christ.

According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ’s death, is buried with him, and rises with him.


169 posted on 06/13/2015 10:16:37 AM PDT by ADSUM
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To: ealgeone

Your comment:”Catholic tradition has also introduced all of the false teachings on Mary. This is why Christians reject the roman catholic appeal to tradition.”

Prove it! Based on facts and not your personal opinion.

Your comment: “We have no need of any additional “tradition” to share the Gospel...especially when the “tradition” that is being espoused goes against the Word. “

Again, you have no facts that support this false statement.

It seems to me that many ignore some of the words of God that are in the Bible. Perhaps they are false followers of Jesus based on their own viewpoints and not God’s word and teachings.


170 posted on 06/13/2015 10:29:30 AM PDT by ADSUM
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