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To: verga

I do not think you appreciate the depth of your question.

How free is free? Does God even have complete freedom, so that He could lie? Do what degree were your choices constrained by nature and nurture? And what does God hold man accountable for, and according to what basis? Is man condemned for simply having a sinful nature, as Calvin taught of infants, or as in giving it is “according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.” (2 Corinthians 8:12)

My incomplete hypothesis (as a totality, most are sure facts):

In conversion, by God’s grace man does what he otherwise could not and would not do, as God draws and convicts souls, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32; 16:8) opens hearts (Acts 16:14) and grants repentant faith. (Acts 11:18; Eph. 2:8)

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44)

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (John 12:32)

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: (John 16:8)

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. (Acts 11:18)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:8)

In grace, God justifies the unGodly by faith, on Christ’s account and merit, yet it is a faith that effects obedience, which justifies them as being believers and who are fit to be rewarded for their faith in recognition of their character and works, but which is due to God’s working in the believer both to will and to do what is pleasing in His sight. (Phil 2:13)

But man can choose to reject the grace of God, and God can allow souls to do so, nor is God obligated to grant any man grace, or the same degree.

God even warns believers of an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God, making Christ of no effect, of no profit, and falling from grace, and drawing back into perdition, a true faith is one that perseveres. (Heb. 3:6,12,14; 10:38; Gal. 5:1-4) Yet He also works to motivate believers to repentance, lest he be condemned with the rest of the world.

And while sinning and rejecting God calling him to repentance is in keeping with mans natural sinful disposition, yet God gives every man some grace to respond to light given, and to resist sins to some degree (at least initially) and know who the true God is. (Romans 1:19,20;2:14; Genesis 4:6-7,13)

By choice lost man can go from knowing who the true God is to becoming foolish by worshiping idols. And idolatry being the mother of sins. he can then go on to becoming increasingly darkened. (Romans 1:21-22)

Rejecting the light one has (obedience to which leads to more light) is in essence rejecting Christ, the Light which lighteth every man which cometh into the world, even if he never heard of the Lord, not being given that degree of grace. (Mark 4:23-24; John 12:35; John 1:9)

Man is not condemned for what he had no choice but to do, due to the actions of his ancestors, as this would be contrary to the word of God. (Deuteronomy 24:16; cf. 2Ki 14:5,6; 2Ch 25:4; Jer 31:29,30; Eze 18:20)

Eternal damnation is for what man is personally culpable for, having not cooperated with the degree of light and grace given, though this can mean sins which he was unable to resist sin due to prior choices. (Romans 2:6,8; Revelation 20:13; Mark 12:40)


733 posted on 06/01/2015 3:44:50 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
I do not think you appreciate the depth of your question.

I most certainly do, that is why I offered the 4th option.

I have read your post. Please pick one

A) Free will doesn't exist

B) Limited /conditional free will exists

C) Unconditional Free will exists

D) Something else entirely (Please explain)

Thank you for your participation.

738 posted on 06/01/2015 5:45:24 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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