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To: MHGinTN; Gamecock
The god being described by the poster is not the God found in the pages of The Bible.

I try to use scripture in each of my post to validate my claims. I noticed you did not nor did you answer my questions. Since I cannot post entire commentaries out here, may I suggest a careful reading of the London Baptist Confession of Faith or listening to some of C.H. Spurgeon's sermons.

844 posted on 06/02/2015 12:40:48 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: HarleyD
You wrote: If we have "free will" then one has to ask why don't we keep God's commandments? Moses told us they're not that hard to keep. But you are insisting that we do not have free will so you are describing a god who is nothing but a puppet master and you the puppet. It is hard to answer when you contradict your own posts.

You want scripture? How will that help you since you are starting from apersepctive which contradicts the Bible? But here goes:

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world that HE GAVE His only begotten son ... How is it love when you assert that we each are either going to accept or not based upon what God dictates rather than as an act of free will to love Him back or not?

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. You are insisting that a god loves by compelling some to love Him back. Strange definition of love, and would not fit to the passage in 1Jn 4:19 because by your calculus we love because He forces us to love.

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: By your assertion this is an act of petulance by your god figure because he is forcing those who love him and obey him to do so, thus his showy act of sacrificing himself to achieve something he will compel anyway is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Nor is this the God of God's Grace in Christ, for if by forced puppetry then it is not grace but a pretend. Please note that if we have no choice but to be delivered, sacrificing Jesus on the cross is no longer an act of love performed for those who have a choice to accept or reject, but the showy act of a demigod puppet master.

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. It is not redeeming, is not a gift if the one for whom it is done has no choice but to accept what is offered. Grace only has meaning where the offer can go either way, accept or reject. if the thing redeemed was never anything but what it was created to be, unredeemed or lost in sin. And your calculus makes sin out to be something to blame on your demigod, not something sadly the result of a nature inherited from Adam, from which redemption is required. In Chess if one gets a pawn safely tot he eight rank, the pawn can be traded for any other piece but the King. If there is nothing to be gained by making it safely tot he eighth rank the effort to get there then being taken out of the struggle makes Chess a different game entirely. The threat of being promoted to a more powerful piece has significance which your calculus of God forcing all actions and reactions upon us removes. Threat presupposes choice to do or not to do.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. This commandment is hollow if Adam and Eve could only do as the puppet master directs. The god you assert is duplicitous to command and attach direct punishment to an act that god will force them to break. Your calculus asserts God forced them to break the commandment, thus your god makes commandments which are not for good or evil but to show that demigod's power over his creation. Without choice there is no sin, for sin is then directed by your deity. That is the deity satan wnts you to see, and it is not the God of the bible, the Great I AM.

And finally recall the Bible says that satan TEMPTED Jesus. He successfully tempted Eve in the Garden and then tried to tempt Jesus in the wilderness. There is no temptation if there is no possibility of free choice. Please, evaluate whom you have believed, for it si a lie from the devil himself to assert there is no free choice. There would be no temptation, no sin, and certainly no value in sacrificing Jesus on a cruel cross if there is nothing to be redeemed. To be in need of redemption something must be lost or sold out or removed from a previous state of ownership. Without free will there is no ownership in an individual for self, and thus the Great Grace of God in Christ crucified becomes a thing you don't want to blaspheme by defining it. IF you have acknowledge that Jesus is The Christ, then you surely can dig into the Scriptures and see Whom is The Christ on God's terms. By denying free will in humankind you cheapen the Cross and do violence to the Glory of God's redeeming work. HINT: you do not 'buy back'/ redeem something you never allowed to leave your possession.

845 posted on 06/02/2015 1:30:13 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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