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To: redleghunter; smvoice
>>Did Paul preach two gospels; one of grace to the Gentiles and one of the kingdom to the Jews?<<

No, he preached the gospel of grace to all but clearly told of the time when Israel would be saved as a nation. Keep in mind that Paul also said that their hearts had been hardened in part meaning many of the Jews/Israelites would not believe until "the fullness of the Gentiles" comes.

>>Taking your Acts 2, 3 and 1 Peter 1 comments in stride, you paint two distinct classes of believers not just in end times but in the early church.<<

I certainly don't intend to as there are not. It's just that Peter understood Christ's mission to the Jews and the prophecy of His "Kingdom" sitting on the throne of David and that's what the Jews expected from prophecy. The "dispensation of grace" given to Paul wasn't understood by Peter and the 11 at that point.

>>At what point did this message of the physical kingdom end for good in the early church<<

It has never ended. After the last seven years of the promised 490 to Israel which is the tribulation Christ will set up an earthly Kingdom.

>>Based on the above, how do you explain the same Holy Spirit falling on Jews and the Diaspora Jews on Pentecost and then later on Samaritans, Romans, Greeks... (Gentiles).<<

The hardening of the hearts of the Israelites/Jews was "in part". There are many Jews who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior but as a nation they are still not seeing Him as their Messiah. That will happen during the last half of the seven year tribulation which is "the time of Jacobs trouble".

543 posted on 05/27/2015 10:39:04 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear; daniel1212; roamer_1; Zuriel
No, he preached the gospel of grace to all but clearly told of the time when Israel would be saved as a nation. Keep in mind that Paul also said that their hearts had been hardened in part meaning many of the Jews/Israelites would not believe until "the fullness of the Gentiles" comes.

I fully understand what Paul said in his letter to the Romans. It was of course historically before his house arrest in Rome. When Paul was in Rome did he preach just the gospel of grace to all that would hear or the kingdom gospel to all that hear?

The "dispensation of grace" given to Paul wasn't understood by Peter and the 11 at that point.

What point would that be? Can you put a rough 'time and space' on it? Was it before, during or after the Jerusalem conference?

It has never ended. After the last seven years of the promised 490 to Israel which is the tribulation Christ will set up an earthly Kingdom.

Of course, there is prophecy to fulfill for the physical kingdom. That was not my point or contention. Somewhere, or at some point in the early church, according to your position, the Jews figured out that they needed to embrace the gospel of grace instead of the kingdom gospel. When was that? And how do you explain all those souls saved on Pentecost when they realized they had the wrong gospel or it was abandoned for the dispensation given to Paul. For Acts 2 says at the end of the chapter: "And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved." So indeed by what I am seeing from you and others, is a claim there are two classes of ekklesia. One of kingdom and one of grace.

The hardening of the hearts of the Israelites/Jews was "in part". There are many Jews who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior but as a nation they are still not seeing Him as their Messiah.

Yes, indeed that is established fact. However, the message accepted by the believing Jews on Pentecost resulted in being filled with the Holy Spirit and they were added to the ekklesia that day. I have no dispute on the future physical kingdom of Christ on earth for 1,000 years. I am talking about those who came to Christ on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. Put it more clearly, in your view, were those Jews 'born again' that day or did they have to wait for Paul's gospel of grace?

550 posted on 05/27/2015 11:03:15 AM PDT by redleghunter (1 Peter 1:3-5)
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