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To: Steelfish
BOATBUMS attempts to minimize the Catholic intellectual tradition. For this he cites scripture: Corinthians 1:25 “For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength,” is yet another supreme example of why Protestantism thrives in shallow waters.

You continue to fall back on your arguments by assertion and arguments based on authority, yet these defenses have been refuted numerous times. Do you imagine no one can remember back that far? Do you imagine your arguments are enhanced by insulting those with whom you debate? You keep referring to a "shallow waters" or the inference that no non-Catholic is capable of deep theological thought. I, too, can prance out a list of numerous powerhouses of the Protestant/Evangelical faith, lists of former Roman Catholics who converted to Protestant/Evangelicalism and a litany of the tomes of their writings that could match up to anyone you might presume is the prime example of a "really, really smart person", but that isn't the point, is it?

This quote has everything to with the paradox of the cross. The verses preceding 1:25 puts the selected quote in context. “For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.”

No, this has WAY more to do with human capacity for intellect than just the world's view of the cross. Because God HAS chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, the weak things to bewilder the mighty, we ALL may know that the glory for all things is God's. You trot out your roster of smart people as if we should just surrender to anything they say because they just must be right seeing they are so smart and all, but you cannot honestly deny that some of the most brilliant people who ever lived were deniers of God, rejecting His authority and placing themselves as the epitome of human thinking and accomplishments. Scripture tells us God laughs in derision at such men, that those who profess themselves wise are really fools. Is there a place for wisdom in men and women of God? Of course! God grants wisdom to those who seek it from Him. The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God, let's not forget.

So, how do we know who is wise in God's eyes? Those who seek Him, to know Him, to love and serve Him. He mocks those who mock, but gives grace to the humble. (Proverbs 3:34) So, that's why I minimize not just the Catholic intellectual "tradition" but ANY tradition that rests on it's laurels and presumes the "little people" will be awed and amazed at their brilliance that they swallow whole whatever is spun by them. Without reliance upon the word of God, it's all just human wisdom, which can be foolishness. I find it quite curious how much you cherry pick the writings of these Catholic stalwarts. You skipped right on past that paragraph from Benedict on the sad state of the Catholic hierarchy leading up to the Reformation. I guess it must be difficult to see one's bubble burst? That ones' Rome-colored glasses are quite smudged.

This is the same BOATBUMS who a while ago posted this: “There IS a firm set of beliefs that identify genuine Christians. They are ALL Biblical, have been believed always, everywhere and by all and have never changed from the start. Creeds, on the other hand, HAVE changed as well as their interpretation on each point.” The dozen Bible Churches in your town have different pastors and each unlike the Joel Osteens, TD Jakes, and Jimmy Swaggarts all provide different interpretations of God’s word. I suspect they don’t have a Credo or a Catechism.

Every time you trot this out, it only shows how shallow your own little knowledge pool is. I'm beginning to think you would drown in that deep end you so like to boast of. Do you imagine that the dozens of Catholic priests, bishops, popes and lay people don't also have their own personal interpretations of God's word? Tell me, has the Roman Catholic church EVER produced a comprehensive Bible commentary? Has the official catechism of the Catholic church guaranteed that NO Catholic thinks outside of the magesterium-built box? Sure, you can claim all you want that the tenets of the Catholic religion are spelled out in this document, but you cannot in all honesty claim it has brought about "unity" of belief. There IS such a thing as absolute truth - and it's true whether anyone believes it or not. God's truth, as revealed in His sacred word, is that truth and as long as someone is seeking to know it, God will reward him. This was understood from the start. God's word is truth. It stands as an unmovable rock. Whatever little "extras" man adds to his religion either doesn't matter or makes the difference between salvation or condemnation. We should major on the major things, not the minor things. Keep the main thing the main thing. I repeat, “There IS a firm set of beliefs that identify genuine Christians. They are ALL Biblical, have been believed always, everywhere and by all and have never changed from the start. Can Catholicism claim this?

Do you imagine non-Catholic Christians are ignorant of the writings of the "early church fathers"? How many times have we presented their words to dispute the false assertion of modern Catholics that they hold the SAME faith as the early church? Do you want to go around THAT carousel again? All you have is bluster and swagger as if you are clinging to the shirt tails of those whom you admire and can garner some of their "glory" by praising them. It is so transparent that you don't seem to do much thinking of your own. Perhaps that is why you lash out at others while never addressing the actual questions posed to you. Great men of God were never afraid to do that because they knew that TRUE wisdom comes from above.

    But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. (James 3:17)

596 posted on 05/27/2015 11:21:13 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums; Steelfish
This quote has everything to with the paradox of the cross.

No, this has WAY more to do with human capacity for intellect than just the world's view of the cross.

Of course it does, as rejecting the cross has deeper roots, in which the learned are far better at rationalizing the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and defending what they want instead. The "not many wise" extends way beyond the immediate context here, for as told the RC, the church began with common souls holding both men and writings of God as being so without an infallible mag.. and following itinerant preachers who est. their claims upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power.

Which is contrary to the Roman model, and which was actually in dissent from the learned and lettered.

Paul was the only documented exception and who came later, and it is he that evangelicals highly esteem.

Tell me, has the Roman Catholic church EVER produced a comprehensive Bible commentary?

Well, you have the Bible helps and notes of the official NAB for decades. Showing what intellectual prowess and learning by RCs can come up with.

641 posted on 05/28/2015 12:08:07 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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