Posted on 05/12/2015 4:21:27 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Let us begin with a church history exam question. Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542–1621) was a figure not to be taken lightly. He was Pope Clement VIII’s personal theologian and one of the most able figures in the Counter-Reformation movement within sixteenth-century Roman Catholicism. On one occasion, he wrote: “The greatest of all Protestant heresies is _______ .” Complete, explain, and discuss Bellarmine’s statement.
How would you answer? What is the greatest of all Protestant heresies? Perhaps justification by faith? Perhaps Scripture alone, or one of the other Reformation watchwords?
Those answers make logical sense. But none of them completes Bellarmine’s sentence. What he wrote was: “The greatest of all Protestant heresies is assurance.”
A moment’s reflection explains why. If justification is not by faith alone, in Christ alone, by grace alone — if faith needs to be completed by works; if Christ’s work is somehow repeated; if grace is not free and sovereign, then something always needs to be done, to be “added” for final justification to be ours. That is exactly the problem. If final justification is dependent on something we have to complete it is not possible to enjoy assurance of salvation. For then, theologically, final justification is contingent and uncertain, and it is impossible for anyone (apart from special revelation, Rome conceded) to be sure of salvation. But if Christ has done everything, if justification is by grace, without contributory works; it is received by faith’s empty hands — then assurance, even “full assurance” is possible for every believer.
No wonder Bellarmine thought full, free, unfettered grace was dangerous! No wonder the Reformers loved the letter to the Hebrews!
This is why, as the author of Hebrews pauses for breath at the climax of his exposition of Christ’s work (Heb. 10:18), he continues his argument with a Paul-like “therefore” (Heb. 10:19). He then urges us to “draw near … in full assurance of faith” (Heb. 10:22). We do not need to re-read the whole letter to see the logical power of his “therefore.” Christ is our High Priest; our hearts have been sprinkled clean from an evil conscience just as our bodies have been washed with pure water (v.22).
Christ has once-for-all become the sacrifice for our sins, and has been raised and vindicated in the power of an indestructible life as our representative priest. By faith in Him, we are as righteous before the throne of God as He is righteous. For we are justified in His righteousness, His justification alone is ours! And we can no more lose this justification than He can fall from heaven. Thus our justification does not need to be completed any more than does Christ’s!
With this in view, the author says, “by one offering He has perfected for all time those who come to God by him” (Heb. 10:14). The reason we can stand before God in full assurance is because we now experience our “hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and … bodies washed with pure water” (Heb. 10:22).
“Ah,” retorted Cardinal Bellarmine’s Rome, “teach this and those who believe it will live in license and antinomianism.” But listen instead to the logic of Hebrews. Enjoying this assurance leads to four things: First, an unwavering faithfulness to our confession of faith in Jesus Christ alone as our hope (v.23); second, a careful consideration of how we can encourage each other to “love and good works” (v.24); third, an ongoing communion with other Christians in worship and every aspect of our fellowship (v.25a); fourth, a life in which we exhort one another to keep looking to Christ and to be faithful to him, as the time of his return draws ever nearer (25b).
It is the good tree that produces good fruit, not the other way round. We are not saved by works; we are saved for works. In fact we are God’s workmanship at work (Eph. 2:9–10)! Thus, rather than lead to a life of moral and spiritual indifference, the once-for-all work of Jesus Christ and the full-assurance faith it produces, provides believers with the most powerful impetus to live for God’s glory and pleasure. Furthermore, this full assurance is rooted in the fact that God Himself has done all this for us. He has revealed His heart to us in Christ. The Father does not require the death of Christ to persuade Him to love us. Christ died because the Father loves us (John 3:16). He does not lurk behind His Son with sinister intent wishing He could do us ill — were it not for the sacrifice his Son had made! No, a thousand times no! — the Father Himself loves us in the love of the Son and the love of the Spirit.
Those who enjoy such assurance do not go to the saints or to Mary. Those who look only to Jesus need look nowhere else. In Him we enjoy full assurance of salvation. The greatest of all heresies? If heresy, let me enjoy this most blessed of “heresies”! For it is God’s own truth and grace!
see 819
Exactly. We here these people whine about "us all" being one but can't define who "us all" is.
I have no trouble with that. But don't we have to define who that Son is?
Might I suggest you re-read your post 801?
I would also ask if believing Jesus is not God and that He is the brother of Lucifer or practicing homosexuality is doing "the will of My Father who is in heaven"?
The Apostles intentionally left the gospels as a testimony of what they had seen. Within those gospels they tell the story of Jesus. Anyone who believes in Him through their proclamation is saved.
I personally don't ask people to get all cleaned up and sinless before they're eligible for salvation. Nor do I ask them to gain a theologian's understanding of the person of Christ before they're eligible.
In fact, I tend to assume the opposite, that they're pretty ignorant of those things.
You have yet to respond to 801. So, since you didn’t say you mean those who are already believers, then you must mean those who are not yet believers.
Do you believe in loss of salvation? I don’t.
Do I believe that Christians can get led astray? I do.
What do I think is the result?
“1 Co 3: 10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.”
Mormons deny that Christ is part of the triune God even when shown evidence. They deny who He truly is yet you would claim they are saved? And all of God's statements about homosexuality makes no difference?
What I said was that those who believe in Him will be saved. Do you deny that?
Then I will respond here. NO, I don't think Mormons and homosexuals were included in Jesus prayer of John 17:21.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
Here's what you said.
>>"Any Mormon who believes in Jesus will be saved."<<
They believe in "a" Jesus. It's not the Jesus of scripture. The Jesus they believe in is not part of the triune God. The Jesus they believe in is a brother to Lucifer. Yet you stated they will be saved. It seems to me that you're saying any Jesus will do.
1 Co 6: 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with mena 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Just to be clear about your post. The above section you cited says that some of the Christians in Corinth were homosexuals at one time.
So, I assume you are actually trying to say that anyone who continues in a sinful lifestyle is giving evidence that they are most likely a tare, an unbeliever, who never has actually turned to Jesus.
Is that correct?
I stand by “any Mormon who believes in Jesus” will be saved. That is what John 3:16 says. If they read John 3:16 and ask that Jesus they just read about to save them, then they are saved. Period. I suspect the Lord will take them out of that group, but here I am still fooling around with the Methodist hierarchy hoping that someday they’ll buy a clue.
Here's you comment again xzins.
>>"Any practicing homosexual who believes in Jesus will be saved.<<
And here is my original.
"How about practicing homosexuals who claim to believe in Jesus?"
Now, a practicing homosexual does NOT fit the passage "11 And that is what some of you were." which you posted.
Any practicing homosexual who believes in Jesus will be saved. Is there something wrong with that? Otherwise we say that it is unforgiveable. 1 Co 6 says that it is forgiveable.
There is also the issue of sin in Christians....backsliding. I believe that sin in Christians is forgiveable. 1 Co 3 details what happens to those who are saved but live unworthy lives.
Then there are tares, which I think is the case with most in the church who contend that homosexuality is not even a sin and want to be received as believers in Jesus.
CB, I want to believe you’re in this for the purpose of ‘rightly dividing the word of truth.’ If the purpose is ‘gotcha’, then there is nothing I can do to help you.
What do you have to offer, if all you have is gotcha? Jesus told the disciples to feed the 5000 and they began counting the food supplies and the cost of food. He ended up taking over. The best answer was like when Mary said at the wedding “We’ll do whatever YOU say.” HE is the only food that satisfies. Gotcha doesn’t satisfy.
Are there current Christians who are also involved in homosexual practice? Yes. They are backslidden. They can be forgiven. They are not lost.
Are there practicing homosexuals who have refused to acknowledge that their homosexuality is a sin, who think that attending a church service is Christianity, and who call on Jesus to bless their mess and leave them alone? Yes. They are lost. They are not Christian.
BUT....they can be saved if they call on the Lord to save them.
Another Catholic teaching with absolutely no Scriptural basis.
Or any basis of ANY kind.....
Even if that Jesus is half-brother of Lucifer, conceived by Mary as a result of having sex with God, her being one of the Father’s many plural wives?
That Mormon Jesus can save, too?
Ther's a world of difference between what Mormons believe Jesus is and what the NT teaches Jesus to be.
Nobody needs a degree in theology to know that the Mormon Jesus is just flat out wrong.
How about “She danced all not with her beau Tom.”
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