Posted on 04/28/2015 8:36:56 AM PDT by RnMomof7
It’s a question that requires little thought to answer; are you infallible? It ranks right up there with, “Are you God?” But to Catholic apologists the question is quite serious; that’s because they believe that there is a man on earth who, on the subject of faith and morals, is infallible; they call him, “holy father.” See, it does rank right up there with, “Are you God,” at least when coming from people who think their leader is equal with God on deciding issues of faith and morals.
According to Catholic apologist, John Martignoni, this question should cause Protestants to suddenly doubt everything they believe, and Catholics should take comfort in knowing they and only they, have an infallible leader here on earth. But how can they know? Is there one Catholic person out there, besides the pope of course, who will confess to being infallible? And if a Catholic is not infallible, how can he or she “know” their pope is infallible? They can’t! So if they cannot infallibly declare their pope to be infallible, then their assertion is nothing more than a fallible opinion. And if they are wrong, which my fallible counter-assertion says they are, then they are being deceived.
The logic that so often accompanies claims of papal infallibility goes something like this: “Jesus did not leave His people vulnerable to the doctrinal whims of competing leaders.”
The logic used is quite revealing; it indicates very strongly that those who use it have no idea what it means to have the gift of the Holy Spirit, because if they had the gift of the Holy Spirit they would not be looking to Rome for infallible direction. It also reveals that they think everyone else is like them, wanting to follow the whims of their leaders. It also denies the notion that Christ has relationship with man through the gift of the Holy Spirit. Their magisterium reserves that privilege for themselves and people buy into it. It’s no different than Mormons following their prophet in Utah.
The pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, but the Apostle Paul explicitly said that Christ is the head of His Church and He reconciles all things to Himself. To wit, Catholics will be quick to agree that Christ is the head, but then immediately contradict themselves by saying, “but He established the papacy through which He reveals His truths .” Based on what? If Christ is the head and we are the body, where does the papacy fit in? I see no evidence of this claim in Scripture or history, so if the evidence is not there the papacy must belong to a different body; one that is not associated with Christ and His church.
In his newsletter on his website where he shares chapter one of his new book, “Blue Collar Apologetics,” John Martignoni instructs his faithful followers to establish the fact that Protestants are not infallible early on in discussions with them. The purpose of doing this is to attempt to convince the Protestant that he could be wrong about what he believes. The funny thing is Martignoni never tells his readers what to do if the Protestant turns the question back on them; and that is most certainly what is likely to happen.
Does Martignoni really not see this coming, or is he simply at a loss for how to address it? Once a Catholic apologist is faced with admitting their own fallibility, they will immediately be forced to deal with the realization that their claim of papal infallibility is itself a fallible opinion; so they must, therefore, admit that they could be wrong as well. And once they realize the playing field is level, the evidence will do the talking.
A Catholic apologist who is willing to concede that his belief regarding papal infallibility is nothing more than a fallible opinion will likely ask another similar question, “What church do you belong to and how old is it?” In their minds this is the true “gotcha” question. They believe, in their fallible opinions of course, that they belong to the church founded by Christ nearly 2000 years ago. But the fact is, and yes it is a fact, there was no Roman Catholic Church 2000 years ago; it took a few hundred years for that to develop. Furthermore, by their own admission, the doctrines they hold equal in authority to the Bible, which they call “sacred traditions,” did not exist at the time of the apostles; that also is a fact.
There is something, however, that is clearly older than any Protestant or Roman Catholic Church and that is the written books of the Bible. If a person bases his or her faith on these written works then no supposed authority that came later can undermine the power of God working through them. It is unfortunate that when a person comes to Christ in faith through reading the Bible, that there are so-called Christians who come along to cast doubt in their minds. For example, in a tract on the Catholic Answers website called, “By What Authority,” it is stated, “In fact, not one book of the Bible was written for non-believers.”
Not according to the Apostle John who explicitly wrote, “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name”? He did not say these are written because you believe; he said, these are written that you may believe. John’s gospel is a firsthand written testimony of the ministry of Jesus for the purpose of bringing people to Him, and Catholic apologists are telling us it was never John’s intention for us to become believers by reading it? Amazing; isn’t it? The Catholic Answers philosophy seems to be to make up facts rather than face them.
So for the sake of the next John Martignoni disciple who wants to ask me if I am infallible, the answer is no; and incidentally your answer to my identical question is also no. Thus I am not interested in your fallible opinion that your pope is infallible when speaking on faith and morals. Perhaps one of you can go tell Mr. Martignoni that chapter his one is incomplete, and that he might want to consider adding a realistic response to his question rather than a bunch of scenarios where the Protestant is simply dumbfounded. His current scenarios might have been fun for him to write, but they are only going to embarrass his readers when they go out armed with the Martignoni sword.
Yeah, if you're preaching heretical teachings against the true church of Christ, you're out of here....see ya!
Really...it's amazing how no one ever mentions that in the first century....nor the second...nor the tenth, nor the twelfth, I NEVER SAW IT MENTIONED IN THE SIXTEENTH, NOR THE NINTEENTH, but here in the twenty first, you bring it up as fact.....funny how important stuff like that is overlooked until you came along....simply amazing.
NO....NO....NO...They aren't haters....they are our separated brethren....like delinquint children...they are simply in error and in many cases, are not responsible for their behavior. How else could you possibly explain why anyone, with the truth of the Catholic church staring them in the face, would voluntarily choose to ignore it, deny it, and reject the true church which Christ, Himself founded and provided to us as our highway to Heaven???
In Revelations we read that the dead who have died during the Tribulation will rise from the dead and have bodies which can marry and be given in marriage. And they will meet the Lord ON EARTH, not in the air. Those who are alive unto the end, the time Jesus sets foot once again upon the Earth and walks the valley of Meggido, those alive ones will also be around during the 1000 years and will be marrying and giving in marriage. They will be those OF ISRAEL who have come through the Great Tribulation or are resurrected from the dead at the end of the Great Tribulation.
To understand these things by to whom they are aimed you must be into Zach 14 and Isa 65, not just Matt 24. The first 69 weeks of Daniel are solely for the Jews. The seventieth week is FOR THE JEWS. Between the 69th week and the 70th week is the Church Age, and the Church Age ends with the Rapture of The Church, the body of Christ made so by the indwelling of the earnest of our inheritance, the Holy Spirit.
We do not have prophecy specific enough to know how much time elapses from the Rapture until the revealing of the man of sin which starts the 70th week of Daniel. But it will not be long, I am convinced, because the man of sin will come with great signs and lying wonders, bringing the people (left after the Rapture) together to clean up the mess which a sudden disappearance of perhaps a billion will cause (planes without pilots, falling from the sky; cars, buses, and trains without drivers, etc.).
To begin to understand the prophecies of the end times, the Rapture, and the Second time Jesus sets foot on the Earth (at Mount Olivet), you must be versed in Zacharias, and Isaiah, and Daniel, and Matthew, and Luke, and Thessalonians, and Corinthians, and Genesis, and Revelations.
The Bible teaches by addressing certain passages to certain people. There is one teaching that we can apply to all people though, that no one comes unto the Father but by Jesus, for Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him.
There will be no Jew or Gentile in the Heavenly Kingdom except they come by Jesus. The 'saints' who die in the Tribulation period of Daniels seventieth week will be resurrected ON EARTH, with bodies that can be married and give in marriage and have children. The Saints who are Raptured back in 1 Thess 4 will be given glorified bodies which do not give or are not given in Marriage. At the end of the thousand years, THEN a great Judgment occurs and glorified bodies are given to those found written in the Lambs Book of Life. Those seen in 1 Thess 4 are given glorified bodies at the Rapture so they will not be standing for judgment at the end of the thousand years.
kerping
That little story was GOOD!!!!!!.:0)
However, when protestants altered God's word and attempted to change the true faith..did make them wrong.
True faith, my foot! We go by the Bible not man.
I learn a lot from mm but none from y’all.
I trust that poster a whole lot more than y’all. At least those posts are Biblical.
Nah, he just saw the light.
You did not answer the question. Why not?
They just did not believe the Bible. Poor things.
Just how was the Bible changed? I admire Luther. He saw that something was not right in the Catholic teaching and did something to correct it. More people should have that kind of courage.
No, just since you left the one, holy Catholic and apostolic church which Christ founded and started navigating to wherever...
LOL, TC, there you go again. Ladies, at one time I belonged to a works based religion (WBR) that will remain un named, but you all know what it is. 😄😀😃 I thought this WBR was the only true church. My opinion is, I was wrong, being in that un named WBR. Then, some nice guys came along and started navigating me in a different direction. Bless their hearts. After all, we know the only true church, is the 29th United Navigators Church, founded about 9.357 trillion years ago. It has been around so long, it must be the only true church. 😱😇😂 it has come to my attention that the possibility exists there are still those who do WBRs. Fortunately, I am not one of them. All who will NOT try to hoodwink old St Pete into opening the pearly gates, by virtue of their works, say I. I.......Any other takers?
Those of you who are no longer involved in WBRs, which will remained un named, keep telling the truth. I know, there might be some who may or may not be interested in the truth, but that's on them. 🇵🇭😄😀😃😎😆😅
Selah!
Mark, I love Beyond the Sunset. Another song I grew up listening to and singing, thanks.
I change it periodically. Glad you like it. Frederick M Lehman, 1917.
'Call no man father' doesn't sound too complicated...Neither does 'all have sinned'...'A bishop is to have a wife and children' is about as simple as you can get...'Do not let Gentiles drink blood' is not difficult to understand...
So as we can see it's not the complicated things that concern you and draw you to your religion...
Sure you have.
That you won’t know if you’re saved until you die and that only those who keep going doing the works of the law will get there (working out your salvation).
That you need to keep repenting of your sin to be saved, that if you stop repenting, you’re lost.
That Christians can end up in hell.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.