Posted on 04/28/2015 8:36:56 AM PDT by RnMomof7
It’s a question that requires little thought to answer; are you infallible? It ranks right up there with, “Are you God?” But to Catholic apologists the question is quite serious; that’s because they believe that there is a man on earth who, on the subject of faith and morals, is infallible; they call him, “holy father.” See, it does rank right up there with, “Are you God,” at least when coming from people who think their leader is equal with God on deciding issues of faith and morals.
According to Catholic apologist, John Martignoni, this question should cause Protestants to suddenly doubt everything they believe, and Catholics should take comfort in knowing they and only they, have an infallible leader here on earth. But how can they know? Is there one Catholic person out there, besides the pope of course, who will confess to being infallible? And if a Catholic is not infallible, how can he or she “know” their pope is infallible? They can’t! So if they cannot infallibly declare their pope to be infallible, then their assertion is nothing more than a fallible opinion. And if they are wrong, which my fallible counter-assertion says they are, then they are being deceived.
The logic that so often accompanies claims of papal infallibility goes something like this: “Jesus did not leave His people vulnerable to the doctrinal whims of competing leaders.”
The logic used is quite revealing; it indicates very strongly that those who use it have no idea what it means to have the gift of the Holy Spirit, because if they had the gift of the Holy Spirit they would not be looking to Rome for infallible direction. It also reveals that they think everyone else is like them, wanting to follow the whims of their leaders. It also denies the notion that Christ has relationship with man through the gift of the Holy Spirit. Their magisterium reserves that privilege for themselves and people buy into it. It’s no different than Mormons following their prophet in Utah.
The pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, but the Apostle Paul explicitly said that Christ is the head of His Church and He reconciles all things to Himself. To wit, Catholics will be quick to agree that Christ is the head, but then immediately contradict themselves by saying, “but He established the papacy through which He reveals His truths .” Based on what? If Christ is the head and we are the body, where does the papacy fit in? I see no evidence of this claim in Scripture or history, so if the evidence is not there the papacy must belong to a different body; one that is not associated with Christ and His church.
In his newsletter on his website where he shares chapter one of his new book, “Blue Collar Apologetics,” John Martignoni instructs his faithful followers to establish the fact that Protestants are not infallible early on in discussions with them. The purpose of doing this is to attempt to convince the Protestant that he could be wrong about what he believes. The funny thing is Martignoni never tells his readers what to do if the Protestant turns the question back on them; and that is most certainly what is likely to happen.
Does Martignoni really not see this coming, or is he simply at a loss for how to address it? Once a Catholic apologist is faced with admitting their own fallibility, they will immediately be forced to deal with the realization that their claim of papal infallibility is itself a fallible opinion; so they must, therefore, admit that they could be wrong as well. And once they realize the playing field is level, the evidence will do the talking.
A Catholic apologist who is willing to concede that his belief regarding papal infallibility is nothing more than a fallible opinion will likely ask another similar question, “What church do you belong to and how old is it?” In their minds this is the true “gotcha” question. They believe, in their fallible opinions of course, that they belong to the church founded by Christ nearly 2000 years ago. But the fact is, and yes it is a fact, there was no Roman Catholic Church 2000 years ago; it took a few hundred years for that to develop. Furthermore, by their own admission, the doctrines they hold equal in authority to the Bible, which they call “sacred traditions,” did not exist at the time of the apostles; that also is a fact.
There is something, however, that is clearly older than any Protestant or Roman Catholic Church and that is the written books of the Bible. If a person bases his or her faith on these written works then no supposed authority that came later can undermine the power of God working through them. It is unfortunate that when a person comes to Christ in faith through reading the Bible, that there are so-called Christians who come along to cast doubt in their minds. For example, in a tract on the Catholic Answers website called, “By What Authority,” it is stated, “In fact, not one book of the Bible was written for non-believers.”
Not according to the Apostle John who explicitly wrote, “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name”? He did not say these are written because you believe; he said, these are written that you may believe. John’s gospel is a firsthand written testimony of the ministry of Jesus for the purpose of bringing people to Him, and Catholic apologists are telling us it was never John’s intention for us to become believers by reading it? Amazing; isn’t it? The Catholic Answers philosophy seems to be to make up facts rather than face them.
So for the sake of the next John Martignoni disciple who wants to ask me if I am infallible, the answer is no; and incidentally your answer to my identical question is also no. Thus I am not interested in your fallible opinion that your pope is infallible when speaking on faith and morals. Perhaps one of you can go tell Mr. Martignoni that chapter his one is incomplete, and that he might want to consider adding a realistic response to his question rather than a bunch of scenarios where the Protestant is simply dumbfounded. His current scenarios might have been fun for him to write, but they are only going to embarrass his readers when they go out armed with the Martignoni sword.
What kind of God would want to leave you hanging like that?
Who would want to follow or trust a God like that?
God said it.
I believe it.
That settles it.
Why some on this thread fight so fervently to defend a group of men that have ensnared and burdened them with so much weight which they and their families MUST constantly bear to be almost nearly religious enough, assuming they EVER negotiate their way out of the place of purging when they die, and yet decline the life that is still today available in the Lord Jesus Christ and in bearing His yoke alone...why some prefer the former would require someone more versed in psychology, or psychiatry, than I.
Wasn’t correcting you.
In regards to you both, I simply shake the dust from my sandals and move on.
That’s right...and that IS RESTING in HIM.
I have said it a thousand times. I will say it again. The only doctrine that REALLY matters, is the plan of salvation. What do I, and every man, woman and child on earth have to do to avoid Hell, and go to Heaven? All other issues, like pre trib, post trib, soul sleep, speaking in tongues and other spiritual gifts, as important as they are, do not compare to the plan of salvation. We can debate these other issues till time is no longer time, but I believe God is intelligent enough, to make the plan of salvation SO simple, a three year old can grasp the concept of Heaven and Hell. I hope everyone has a "nice" eternity. 🇵🇭😄😀😃
And the Catholic church preserved it through the years and thanks to them, we have it to read and learn from....
THANKS CATHOLICS!!!!!
By claiming to be Catholic, they are THE Christians...the wannabees need to say they are Christians because some are suspect....J. witnesses, Mormans, "Christian scientists", main street church of the Nazarine, open door church, church of the bible covenant, Pisgah church, Church without spot or wrinkle, Blue Ball church, Navigators, on and on with store front operations which have sprung up and are certain that they are the ones....never mind 2,015 years of Christian history...we are it...
probably not.
Just for my benefit, and yours....please go to your Bible and copy on this thread the passage where Jesus refers to Peter as the rock...Please
It's too bad many people do not have any assurance of salvation at all. It's a great thing to know, and for others, that does not at all mean people can live like hell, because their sins are forgiven. Not even remotely close.
The dates which people have chosen to acknowledge and remember these events are totally irrelevant the fact that Jesus was in all probability not born on Dec. 25 is meaningless...The fact that we celebrate and honor His birth is very relevant. What difference could it possibly make, to God, what date mankind chooses to honor His coming to Earth???????
Well, that leaves me out...My mother put me in the cats sand box right away....no problem, clean it twice a week and all is well!!! :0)
Reformations, that is rectifying problems from within is one thing....revolution, and leaving the true church of Christ is quite another....
Yeah...there were so many other true Christian religions around at that time...who would have taken the RCC's seriously....good grief....PATHETIC
Romans 1: For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. ...
... 2 Timothy 12 (b) Yet this is no cause for shame, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day.
13 What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus. 14 Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
Selah!
How sad, that you are so set on rejecting sound teaching.
Catholicism seems to teach that the Holy Spirit comes and goes, that it depends upon how well ‘confessed’ you are at any moment in time for Salvation to be assured at some time to come. Thank you for posting those passages of resounding Truth.
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