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To: Chicory; metmom; RnMomof7; editor-surveyor; Iscool
Thus, the understanding of the word now translated as either “do penance” or “repent” (for example) in the early Church was based, **not** on the Bible, but on the teachings of Christ themselves. The early Christians understood the meaning of this word because an Apostle or the disciple of an Apostle explained it to them if they understood it in the wrong sense., and later, because the early Christians continued to pass on the teachings of Christ, we understood that what Christ wanted was more than repentance; He wanted penance from us as well.

Having admitted down-thread that the Scriptures in the hands of the Early Church were the Hebrew Scriptures, Don't you think that it would be wise to understand the Hebrew concept?

The concept is teshuva, and follows fairly closely to the definition of repentance as noted by Protestants... However, I will give you a fig leaf - There is a form of penance in modern Judaism at least, in that one must confess to the one(s) harmed by your actions, and do all you can to repair any harm you have caused. It is important to understand that forgiveness is not offered by a priest, but rather from those whom you have offended.

However, that isn't much of a fig leaf, because the normative Protestant sense of repentance generally assumes these things...

But in the ancient sense, the concept means to turn - to turn once again to face YHWH and away from one's sins... To go back to the path of Torah. If forgiveness cannot be found in those you have offended, your appeal ultimately rests in YHWH, who promises to forgive you like you have forgiven others...

So with that in mind, maybe there is some middle ground to be found in following Torah.

146 posted on 04/29/2015 11:21:05 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1; metmom; RnMomof7; editor-surveyor; Iscool; Resettozero

****Having admitted down-thread that the Scriptures in the hands of the Early Church were the Hebrew Scriptures, Don’t you think that it would be wise to understand the Hebrew concept?****
Well, since the New Testament refers to material found in the Septuagint (which includes more books than do the Hebrew Scriptures), it seems that they were familiar with the Greek Scripture, altho using as their languages Aramaic and Hebrew.

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****The concept is teshuva, and follows fairly closely to the definition of repentance as noted by Protestants... However, I will give you a fig leaf - There is a form of penance in modern Judaism at least, in that one must confess to the one(s) harmed by your actions, and do all you can to repair any harm you have caused. It is important to understand that forgiveness is not offered by a priest, but rather from those whom you have offended.****
That was an interesting article, thank you for posting it. Yes, atonement would be another word for the Catholic idea of “doing penance,” except that now we have also to recognize our debt to God. If I steal money from a person, not only must I make atonement to the person himself, I must also make atonement to God… which is what we call “doing penance.”

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****However, that isn’t much of a fig leaf, because the normative Protestant sense of repentance generally assumes these things…****
I did not know that and am glad to hear that this is the case.


149 posted on 04/30/2015 7:41:56 AM PDT by Chicory
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