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To: caww; Salvation
Maybe they would do well putting up one of their Popes quote’s to oppose Luther’s rather than argue over Luther. After all both are just men

You are the second Protestant here to acknowledge that Protestant interpreters of Scripture are just men, and that their interpretations of Scripture are not infallible.

Yes, I understand you believe this to be true of the pope as well.

But if you believe the Bible to be historically accurate, and if you believe that Jesus is God, then you must believe that Peter and the Apostles (and their successors in office) have indisputable teaching authority.

"...which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth." --St. Paul

"If he won't listen to the church, treat him as a pagan or tax collector." --Jesus

The Church has the power to "bind and loose." What does this phrase mean?
"Binding and loosing is an originally Jewish phrase which appears in the New Testament, as well as in the Targum. In usage to bind and to loose mean simply to forbid by an indisputable authority, and to permit by an indisputable authority." --Wikipedia

"Under Queen Alexandra, the Pharisees, says Josephus, "became the administrators of all public affairs so as to be empowered to banish and readmit whom they pleased, as well as to loose and to bind." --Jewish Encyclopedia

Jesus affirms the teaching authority of the Pharisees (their power to "bind and loose.")
“The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do." --Jesus

Jesus, to Peter:

"And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” --Jesus
Jesus to the Apostles:
Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. --Jesus
+ + +

Jesus does not ascribe the power of "binding and loosing" to Scripture.

+ + +

Petrine primacy and Apostolic teaching authority did not end with the deaths of Peter and the Apostles:

Apostolic Succession (Acts 1:20 KJB)

"For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take."

Papal Succession

St. Irenaeus

"The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome] . . . handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus" (Against Heresies 3:3:3 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian

"[T]his is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrneans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John, like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 32:2 [A.D. 200]).


301 posted on 04/26/2015 5:25:12 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; caww
>>The Church has the power to "bind and loose."<<

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them,

303 posted on 04/26/2015 5:32:24 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
...” you must believe that Peter and the Apostles (and their successors in office) have indisputable teaching authority”....

No.. I don't have to believe that any successors of the Apostles have indisputable teaching....Peter was an apostle right along with the others I do not give him the position catholics do...nor will I.

As for binding and loosening the authority of the Pharisees was the very thing which Jesus spoke against...so that carries no weight regarding the matter today.

The Pope and Luther were just men....as were those you referenced further in your post........We have the Spirit of Christ to teach us... we have Gods very Word who guides us, active and powerful....We also have 'fellowship' with other believers and learnered men that we share and discuss these matters we choose....but none of them have the authority of God thru Christ and His written Word, and that of the Spirit he has given us to “guide us into all truth”.

It would do you well to put a whole lot more emphasis on what God says over the men of history so often referenced.

308 posted on 04/26/2015 5:56:07 AM PDT by caww
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