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To: daniel1212

Regarding your comment about the SSPV & SSPX... I am coming to believe that “Rome” may have separated itself from the one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church... it kills me to see Christ’s Mystical Body suffer at the hands of the deniers and betrayers of the Church within the Church... maybe the Church really lives in these pockets of tradition like the SSPV & SSPX... I don’t know... but this business with CRS is sickening, especially in light of what’s happening to tradition & traditionalists everywhere who are trying to hold on to truth...


61 posted on 04/21/2015 6:08:58 AM PDT by HurriKane ("Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us and save us.")
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To: HurriKane
Regarding your comment about the SSPV & SSPX... I am coming to believe that “Rome” may have separated itself from the one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church... it kills me to see Christ’s Mystical Body suffer at the hands of the deniers and betrayers of the Church within the Church... maybe the Church really lives in these pockets of tradition like the SSPV & SSPX... I don’t know... but this business with CRS is sickening, especially in light of what’s happening to tradition & traditionalists everywhere who are trying to hold on to truth.

I understand your angst, for an institution must be consistent with itself, esp. one that claims to be the one true and unchanging church. I myself affirm that Rome is not consistent with her past teachings, though i also see many of her teachings as not supported and often not consistent with Scripture .

. However, the liberal character of the vast multitudes of RCs is consistent with the Roman model for unity and ideological conformity. Which is not that of determining the veracity of RC teaching by examining what Scripture and or the historical sources say, the latter of which is what conservative Cath sects and schisms engage in, but as this make the veracity of a teaching dependent upon the weight of the evidence, and may thus allow for dissent (which is how the church began, instead Rome presumed perpetual ensured magisterial infallibility (conditional) and veracity at least in all salvific matters. Under which dissent is supposed to be disallowed or discreet if allowed (depending on the magisterial level). Yet this same model cannot dispense with the need for interpretation, both as to which magisterial level belongs to, as well as its meaning to varying degrees.

But which interpretation is expressed by the popes and prelates in their comments and actions/inactions, which effectually conveys what they really believe. The hearers of teaching tend to look for the meaning of it by how the preachers of it translate into their own lives, and Rome encourages implicit obedience to Roman pastors. While conservative RCs placate others who are alarmed by how liberal popes and prelates are seen to violate church teaching as they understand it by assuring them that the authorities have not changed any dogma, they miss the fact that dogma is meaningless unless souls see it as authoritative, and liberal prelates indicate it can be interpreted contrary to past ones.

"The intolerance of the Church toward error, the natural position of one who is the custodian of truth, her only reasonable attitude makes her forbid her children to read or to listen to heretical controversy, or to endeavor to discover religious truths by examining both sides of the question. This places the Catholic in a position whereby he must stand aloof from all manner of doctrinal teaching other than that delivered by his Church through her accredited ministers."

“The reason of this stand of his is that, for him, there can be no two sides to a question which for him is settled; for him, there is no seeking after the truth: he possesses it in its fulness, as far as God and religion are concerned. His Church gives him all there is to be had; all else is counterfeit... Holding to Catholic principles how can he do otherwise? How can he consistently seek after truth when he is convinced that he holds it? Who else can teach him religious truth when he believes that an infallible Church gives him God's word and interprets it in the true and only sense? — (John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals, Chapters XIX, XXIII. the consistent believer (1904); Nihil Obstat. Remy Lafort, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York ; http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18438/18438-h/18438-h.htm)

..having discovered the authority established by God, you must submit to it at once. There is no need of further search for the doctrines contained in the Christian Gospel, for the Church brings them all with her and will teach you them all. You have sought for the Teacher sent by God, and you have secured him; what need of further speculation?" “All that we do [as must be patent enough now] is to submit our judgment and conform our beliefs to the authority Almighty God has set up on earth to teach us; this, and nothing else.” —“Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means", (Nihil Obstat:C. SCHUT, S. T.D., Censor Deputatus, Imprimatur: EDM. CANONICUS SURMONT, D.D.,Vicarius Generalis. WESTMONASTERII, Die 30 Septembris, 1914 ); http://www.catholictradition.org/Tradition/faith2-10.htm]

The strength of the sola ecclesia model, in which what the church says is the sole supreme authority, not Scripture, for doctrinal purity and unity is that it is the easiest path to achieving doctrinal conformity, when the leaders to which the people look to above all are committed to this and require implicit obedience and effectually punish dissent. As was seen in medieval Rome and is seen in cults today.

However, this is contrary to how the NT church began, and is not the Scriptural means of unity, moreover, as souls are to give assent of faith toward the teaching men and not ascertain the veracity of teaching by Scripture, then when the leadership goes South then so do the multitudes. Meanwhile conservatives can be charged with being like Protestants because they dissent from aspect of V2 teaching based upon their interpretation of what the church teaches.

69 posted on 04/21/2015 6:38:50 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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