Posted on 04/08/2015 1:19:59 PM PDT by metmom
If you are claiming God Incarnate = God (as in the Godhead) then you are denying the humanity of Jesus.
When I say the words *God* and *God Incarnate* or *Jesus* do you think the same thing?
When people hear *God*, do you expect them to think *Jesus* or the Godhead?
When you say *Jesus* do you expect them to think that you’re talking about the *Father* or *Holy Spirit*?
When you yourself at speaking and use the term *God*, do you mean or expect people to think you mean *Jesus* or the Godhead, the Trinity?
The problem is renaming Mary to *mother of GOD* as opposed to the term the HOLY SPIRIT used in addressing her as *mother of JESUS*.
Referring to Mary as *mother of GOD* says a whole different thing than *mother of Jesus* no matter what semantic gymnastics Catholics would engage in to claim otherwise.
IIRC, the excuse Catholics give for changing the title of Mary was to clear up confusion that arose concerning the deity of Christ.
However, the right thing to have done, would be to have gone back to Scripture and taught correctly who Jesus was, not to rename Mary, removing any reference as all to Jesus.
There is no way that anyone who is not familiar with the concept of the Trinity would think that by calling Mary, *mother of God*, that you would by default mean *mother of God INCARNATE* or *mother of Jesus*.
The change in title says something else and only breeds confusion for those not taught in Catholic thinking. If the term has to be explained so that someone understand it correctly, there is a problem with the term and it needs to be tossed and a more accurate and self-explanatory one needs to be used so as to clear up the confusion.
If someone doesn’t know who Jesus is, TEACH THEM FROM SCRIPTURE. Don’t play name games with His mother.
If you are claiming God Incarnate = God (as in the Godhead) then you are denying the humanity of Jesus.
When I say the words *God* and *God Incarnate* or *Jesus* do you think the same thing?
When people hear *God*, do you expect them to think *Jesus* or the Godhead?
When you say *Jesus* do you expect them to think that you’re talking about the *Father* or *Holy Spirit*?
When you yourself at speaking and use the term *God*, do you mean or expect people to think you mean *Jesus* or the Godhead, the Trinity?
I am not claiming God Incarnate = God (as in the Godhead). God Incarnate is the Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son, Jesus Christ. As Jesus Christ, God Incarnate became fully human in every way but sin.
It really doesn’t matter what we think. It is what it is. Jesus is God, and was the child of the Holy Ghost, Immanuel, God with us, the Son of God, Savior, Redeemer, I AM, the Lord God, and all the other names that were revealed to us for Him in Sacred Scripture. And the Holy Spirit revealed to us that Mary was the mother of this person Jesus.
If you are claiming Mary is not the mother of God, then I do not understand how you are not also denying the divinity of Jesus. Can you explain to me how Jesus can be separated from God with regard to His mother?
There is no way that anyone who is not familiar with the concept of the Trinity would think that by calling Mary, *mother of God*, that you would by default mean *mother of God INCARNATE* or *mother of Jesus*.
Then the solution would be to become familiar with the concept of the Trinity as well as the hypostatic union of Jesus. To say that Mary is the mother of Jesus but not the mother of God is to say that Jesus is not God. I don’t see any other way to explain it.
I usually cite mathematics as evidence for God, in that the universe (at least as we perceive it) requires sequencing of fields and particles, that even here, billions of years later, has us looking back at that sequencing through the concept of number with remarkable understanding and derivative predictive power.
“Sh’ma Yisrael: Adonai Elohenu. Adonai echad.”
If Mary is the mother of God and God is the Trinity, then Mary is the mother of the Trinity.
That puts Mary above the Godhead, makes Mary deity, makes her the mother of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, making them created, finite beings with beginning.
It totally messes up all kinds of theology.
Is Mary the mother of the Father?
Is Mary the mother of the Holy Spirit?
Is Mary the mother of the DEITY of the second person of the Trinity, the mother of the GODHOOD of Jesus?
Is not, Mary is NOT the mother of GOD.
I'll stick with agreeing with the Holy Spirit in what He inspired in Scripture: *Mary, the mother of Jesus*.
That way, I KNOW I can't be wrong.
The Holy Spirit is clear in Scripture in calling Mary *the mother of Jesus*.
John 2:1 On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
John 2:3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
Acts 1:14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
The solution is to teach correctly about who Jesus is, not mess with changing what the Holy Spirit inspired.
I understand math pretty well and live with a bunch of people who understand math even better, but that is beyond me.
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Since Mary did not bring God into being, she is clearly not his mother.
Mary brought a mortal being, Yeshua, into the world to die. His eternal spirit, which he yielded up on the cross, was God.
God didn’t die.
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Actually, not too long ago, we had an RC claim that when Jesus died, God died.
I wonder then, who raised them up?
Catholics are amazing!
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The argument that *Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God therefore Mary is the mother of God*, leads to the following conclusions using the same (for lack of a better term) *logic*:
If Mary is the mother of God and God is the Trinity, then Mary is the mother of the Trinity.
Your logic is incomplete. Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God in the Second Person of the Trinity. As the Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus is God, whole and entire. This is His divine nature. As the child conceived of and born from Mary, Jesus is a human being. This is His human nature. Jesus is true God and true man. As the mother of the person Jesus, Mary is His mother in His divinity and in His humanity. Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.
If Mary is the mother of God and God is the Trinity, it does not follow that Mary is the mother of all three persons of the Trinity. As explained above, and as revealed by the Holy Spirit, Mary became the mother of the Second Person of the Trinity. As the angel Gabriel foretold, “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” The Holy Ghost and the Highest were not born of Mary, just the Son.
As you noted, the Holy Spirit called Mary the mother of Jesus. But He also called her “his mother” and made many references to how she conceived of and gave birth to a divine person and that this divine person was her Son. I will not repeat all these references here, but I will ask again:
Can you explain to me how Jesus can be separated from God with regard to His mother?
Mary is not the mother of His divinity.
His divinity pre-existed Mary, it did not come into existence when Mary conceived Jesus.
Mary is not the mother of His divinity.
His divinity pre-existed Mary, it did not come into existence when Mary conceived Jesus.
No woman is the mother of what comes from her child’s father. But what comes from the father is part of who the son or daughter is, and the woman is the mother of all that her son or daughter is. In the same way, Mary is the mother of all that Jesus was, though His divinity did not come from her. And what Jesus was included being God.
The following story may show you what I mean.
One day when Jesus was a child, he fell and scraped his knee. Mary came running to him, swooped him up and tended to his wound, saying, “That’s okay, honey, Mom will make it all better.”
One evening a little later, Mary cut her finger while fixing supper. Jesus said, “That’s okay, Mommy, I’ll make it all better.” Mary thought how cute it was that Jesus was imitating her until she saw the serious look on his face, and realized that he was speaking to her as her God.
Now, as far as I know, this never really happened, but it does illustrate the dual nature of Jesus.
He was speaking to her as God when He rebuked her when they found Him in the Temple answering the questions of the priests.
For that that matter, He rebuked her at the wedding at Cana, too.
He was speaking to her as God
Exactly, He was speaking to her as God when He rebuked her. Even so, He went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
I would think that one of the things that His mother kept in her heart was that, more than anything else, her Son must be about His Father’s business. For Jesus, it was all about His Father.
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