Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: NYer
I'll take 2000 years of biblical Christian teaching on this subject by both Catholics and early Protestants over some 21st century yahoo with his KJV and self-anointed infallible authority:

Fathers of the Church

Church Fathers from at least the fourth century spoke of Mary as having remained a virgin throughout her life:

Athanasius (Alexandria, 293-373); Epiphanius (Palestine, 315?-403); Jerome (Stridon, present day Yugoslavia, 345?-419); Augustine (Numidia, now Algeria, 354-430); Cyril (Alexandria, 376-444); and others.

Teaching of the Universal Church

The Council of Constantinople II (553-554) twice referred to Mary as "ever-virgin."

Protestant Reformers

The protestant reformers affirmed their belief that Mary, while remaining every-virgin, was truly the Mother of God. Here are only a few examples:

Martin Luther (1483-1546), On the Divine Motherhood of Mary, wrote:

"In this work whereby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such great good things were given her that no one can grasp them. ... Not only was Mary the mother of him who is born [in Bethlehem], but of him who, before the world, was eternally born of the Father, from a Mother in time and at the same time man and God." (Weimer's The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 7, p. 572.)

Luther wrote on the Virginity of Mary:

"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. ... Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact." (Weimer's The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

"When Matthew says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . . . This babble . . . is without justification . . . he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom." (That Jesus was Born a Jew)

"Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. [...] Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers." (Sermons on John)

The French reformer John Calvin (1509-1564) also held that Mary was the Mother of God.

"It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor. ... Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary as at the same time the eternal God." (Calvini Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Braunschweig-Berlin, 1863-1900, v. 45, p. 348, 35.)

Calvin also up held the perpetual virginity of Mary,

"The word brothers, we have formerly mentioned, is employed, agreeably to the Hebrew idiom, to denote any relatives whatever; and, accordingly, Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s brothers are sometimes mentioned."

"This passage afforded the pretext for great disturbances, which were introduced into the Church, at a former period, by Helvidius. The inference he drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband. Jerome, on the other hand, earnestly and copiously defended Mary’s perpetual virginity. Let us rest satisfied with this, that no just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words of the Evangelist, as to what took place after the birth of Christ."

"He is called first-born; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin. It is said that Joseph knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son: but this is limited to that very time. What took place afterwards, the historian does not inform us. Such is well known to have been the practice of the inspired writers."

"Certainly, no man will ever raise a question on this subject, except from curiosity; and no man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation."

...as did the Swiss reformer, Ulrich Zwingli (1484-1531), who wrote:

"I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin." (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, v. 1, p. 424.)

Even John Wesley, in 1749, wrote:

"I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin." (Letter to a Roman Catholic)

Objections

There are some very common objections to the belief that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus.

1) The Bible frequently speaks of the "brothers" and "sisters" of Jesus.

First it is important to note that the Bible does not say that these "brothers and sisters" of Jesus were children of Mary.

Second, the word for brother (or sister), adelphos (adelpha) in Greek, denotes a brother or sister, or near kinsman. Aramaic and other semitic languages could not distinguish between a blood brother or sister and a cousin, for example. Hence, John the Baptist, a cousin of Jesus (the son of Elizabeth, cousin of Mary) would be called "a brother (adelphos) of Jesus." In the plural, the word means a community based on identity of origin or life. Additionally, the word adelphos is used for (1) male children of the same parents (Mt 1:2); (2) male descendants of the same parents (Acts 7:23); (3) male children of the same mother (Gal 1:19); (4) people of the same nationality (Acts 3:17); (5) any man, a neighbor (Lk 10:29); (6) persons united by a common interest (Mt 5:47); (7) persons united by a common calling (Rev 22:9); (8) mankind (Mt 25:40); (9) the disciples (Mt 23:8); and (10) believers (Mt 23:8). (From Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Thomas Nelson, Publisher.)

2) A second objection to Mary's virginity arises from the use of the word heos in Matthew's gospel. "He (Joseph) had no relations with her at any time before (heos) she bore a son, whom he named Jesus" (Mt 1:25, NAB).

The Greek and the Semitic use of the word heos (until or before) does not imply anything about what happens after the time indicated. In this case, there is no necessary implication that Joseph and Mary had sexual contact or other children after Jesus.

3) A third objection to the perpetual virginity of Mary arises from the use of the word prototokos, translated 'first-born' in Luke's gospel.

But the Greek word prototokos is used of Christ as born of Mary and of Christ's relationship to His Father (Col 1:25). As the word does not imply other children of God the Father, neither does it imply other children of Mary.

The term "first-born" was a legal term under the Mosaic Law (Ex 6:14) referring to the first male child born to Jewish parents regardless of any other children following or not. Hence when Jesus is called the "first-born" of Mary it does not mean that there were second or third-born children.

45 posted on 04/07/2015 12:12:44 PM PDT by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: fidelis

Well, even then, we have to look at their rationale for believing what they believe. Did they refer to history? To scripture? If the latter, how valid are their exegesis?

Church Fathers are HUMAN and are not infallible. We respect them for their wisdom, but that does not mean that we read them without discernment.

And even if we look at the early church fathers we see DISAGREEMENT among them regarding to status of Mary as perpetual virgin and even when they do agree, their explanation for the disagreement conflicts with one another.

For instance, the early church father Tertullian denied that she was a perpetual virgin.

Then, over a hundred years later, church father Jerome argued that she was, and attempted to explain away the references to Jesus’ “brothers and sisters” in the New Testament by assuming that they were actually cousins. Did he explain away the term — ADELPHOS?

Then, even later, the church father Epiphanius, while agreeing with Jerome that Mary was a perpetual virgin, tried to explain away the “brothers and sisters” mentioned in scripture by assuming that they were children of Joseph from a former marriage.

So, for those who want to establish doctrine based on post-apostolic “tradition”, which view of Mary is to be accepted?

When three different church fathers give three different views, which one is to be followed?

The safest course is for SCRIPTURE TO SPEAK FOR ITSELF.

If the scriptures speak for themselves, the obvious conclusion is that while Mary was a virgin until Christ’s birth, she had other children later.

The New Testament writers were familiar with the Greek terms for “cousin” and “relative”. They used them. When referring to Jesus’ “brothers and sisters”, though, they used terms with a primary meaning of SHARED PARENTAGE.

Since people who want to believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin cannot find evidence for that belief in the New Testament, they try to find evidence in material written LONG AFTER Mary and the apostles had died.

So the New Testament evidence against Mary being a perpetual virgin is overlooked, as is the testimony of men like Tertullian, who didn’t support the doctrine.

People who want to believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin search through the writings of the church fathers until they find something they agree with, then they READ THAT DOCTRINE BACK into the New Testament, even if the New Testament actually doesn’t support it.


50 posted on 04/07/2015 12:33:29 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]

To: fidelis
3) A third objection to the perpetual virginity of Mary arises from the use of the word prototokos, translated 'first-born' in Luke's gospel.

But the Greek word prototokos is used of Christ as born of Mary and of Christ's relationship to His Father (Col 1:25).

As the word does not imply other children of God the Father, neither does it imply other children of Mary.

The term "first-born" was a legal term under the Mosaic Law (Ex 6:14) referring to the first male child born to Jewish parents regardless of any other children following or not. Hence when Jesus is called the "first-born" of Mary it does not mean that there were second or third-born children.

The Greek word πρωτότοκος, first born or eldest, does not preclude Mary from having other children nor does it mean Jesus was her only child. In other instances of its use in the NT there is an indication that others followed. Though this does clearly give proof that Mary and Joseph had other children.

I am not able to find the reference you make in Colossians 1:25 to prototokos.

If Luke had wanted to note Jesus was her only child he could have used the Greek adjective μονογενής which means only, unique, one of a kind.

Recall that Luke was a doctor and that he had researched the story of Jesus's life. He was precise in his terminology.

If he had wanted to say Mary and Joseph had no other children he would have used the word μονογενής.

57 posted on 04/07/2015 12:52:51 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]

To: fidelis
I'll take 2000 years of biblical Christian teaching on this subject by both Catholics and early Protestants over some 21st century yahoo with his KJV and self-anointed infallible authority:

Fathers of the Church

Church Fathers from at least the fourth century spoke of Mary as having remained a virgin throughout her life:

4th Century, eh??? The fable that was started during the Roman Constantine era where paganism was combined with religion to create the Roman Catholic church...

None of you have even attempted to produce an ounce of 'biblical Christian teaching' on the immaculate conception or the forever virginity of Jesus' mother...And do you know why that is???

161 posted on 04/09/2015 3:03:28 AM PDT by Iscool
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson