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To: ealgeone; boatbums; verga; CynicalBear; RitaOK; Mrs. Don-o; Zuriel; smvoice; jacknhoo; ebb tide

Nice try but you are flat out wrong. We have the Credo and the Catholic Catechism. This is a set of firm beliefs that identify us as Catholics. Of course, one can take a Parable of Christ and drawn several lessons from it but this does not mean a different “belief” interpretation. Indeed, you contradict yourself, the priest like every other priest in the Catholic Church affirms the Credo, and participates in the Sacrifice of the Mass and the central belief in the Eucharist, the alpha and omega of Catholic worship and adoration: The risen Christ Himself under the appearances of the consecrated bread and wine. Unbelief in the Eucharist, is unbelief in what the Resurrection is all about.


444 posted on 04/11/2015 11:37:40 AM PDT by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish; boatbums; verga; CynicalBear; RitaOK; Mrs. Don-o; Zuriel; smvoice; jacknhoo; ebb tide
Nice try but you are flat out wrong. We have the Credo and the Catholic Catechism.

This is the same CCC that says catholics and muslims worship the same god?

or this?

337 God himself created the visible world in all its richness, diversity and order. Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine "work", concluded by the "rest" of the seventh day. On the subject of creation, the sacred text teaches the truths revealed by God for our salvation, permitting us to "recognize the inner nature, the value and the ordering of the whole of creation to the praise of God."

Really, have you read the whole thing??

If you can't get Genesis right, you probably won't get the rest right.

If this what the ccc has to offer, you can keep it.

447 posted on 04/11/2015 11:52:37 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Steelfish; ealgeone; boatbums; verga; CynicalBear; RitaOK; Mrs. Don-o; Zuriel; smvoice; jacknhoo; ..

Unbelief in the Eucharist, is unbelief in what the Resurrection is all about.


Jesus never said “be Holy for the wafer is Holy.”

He said “be Holy for I am Holy.”

Catholics would be better off focusing on the Savior and not a symbol.


478 posted on 04/11/2015 5:34:07 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Steelfish; EagleOne
you contradict yourself, the priest like every other priest in the Catholic Church affirms the Credo, and participates in the Sacrifice of the Mass and the central belief in the Eucharist, the alpha and omega of Catholic worship and adoration: The risen Christ Himself under the appearances of the consecrated bread and wine. Unbelief in the Eucharist, is unbelief in what the Resurrection is all about.

There IS a firm set of beliefs that identify genuine Christians. They are ALL Biblical, have been believed always, everywhere and by all and have never changed from the start. Creeds, on the other hand, HAVE changed as well as their interpretation on each point. How we know what is the truth is found in God's word. Like many of the ECFs stated:

    "For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?" - Ambrose (On the Duties of the Clergy, 1:23:102)

    "Every sickness of the soul hath in Scripture its proper remedy." - Augustine (Expositions on the Psalms, 37:2)

    "But those who are ready to toil in the most excellent pursuits, will not desist from the search after truth, till they get the demonstration from the Scriptures themselves." - Clement of Alexandria (The Stromata, 7:16)

    "For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell thee these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures." - Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures, 4:17)

Earlier in this thread you asserted that ALL Catholics believe the Eucharist is the literal body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ. However, many polls have consistently shown that it is NOT a universally held belief by all Roman Catholics. I guess your reply might be, "Then they aren't true Catholics.", but they sure do identify as such, attend Mass and call themselves Catholics. It would seem having a "single, infallible teaching authority" is not a guarantee of unity of the Roman Catholic faith. Here are some of those studies:

A 1992 Catholic-funded Gallup Poll found only 30% of American Catholics affirmed: "When receiving Holy Communion, you are really and truly receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ, under the appearance of bread and wine. Poll of 519 American Catholics, 18 years or older, conducted from December 10, 1991, to January 19, 1992, http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-79305248.html

Responding to the questions on the Roman Catholic Eucharist, “Which of the following comes closest to what you believe takes place at Mass: (1) The bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, or (2) The bread and wine are symbolic reminders of Christ? 63% of Roman Catholics overall, and 51% of weekly attenders, and 70% of all Catholics in the age group 18 to 44 affirmed the Roman Catholic Eucharist is a "symbolic reminder" of Jesus [it is, of His death], indicating they do not believe it is really Jesus body and blood [as Rome erroneously teaches]. New York Times/CBS News poll, Apr. 21-23, 1994, subsample of 446 Catholics, MOE ± 5% http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_n2_v122/ai_16233123/pg_8/ 1995 Commonweal Foundation

In a survey by the Pew Forum, 55% of Catholics affirmed that their church teaches that the bread and wine in their liturgy of the Lord's supper become Christ’s body and blood, while (41%) said that the church teaches that the bread and wine are symbols. http://pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx

A study by the Roper Center and commissioned by Catholic World Report reported that 82% of Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week agreed with the statement that "the bread and wine used at Mass are actually transformed into the body and blood of Christ." . Catholic World Report; 1997 survey of 1,000 Catholic Americans by Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at the University of Connecticut. http://www.adoremus.org/397-Roper.html

A Catholic polling service reported that 57 percent of adult Catholics (and 91% of adult weekly Mass attenders), said their belief about the Eucharist is best reflected by the statement “Jesus Christ is really present in the bread and wine of the Eucharist,” [a statement which Lutherans could assent to] versus to 43 percent who said their belief is best reflected in the statement, “Bread and wine are symbols of Jesus, but Jesus is not really present.” Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) at Georgetown University, 2007, commissioned by the Department of Communications of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) (taken from http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html)

527 posted on 04/11/2015 10:03:34 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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