Posted on 04/04/2015 1:59:27 PM PDT by Steelfish
Absurd statements like this make it very difficult to takes prots seriously.
Reads further: I am vindicated in post 336.
“Without Jesus there is no Eucharist!”
“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
Not in violation of His own commands to not eat blood.
Don't eat the blood, the life is in the blood
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Besides, the Catholic church says the sacrifice of the mass is an unbloody one. Jesus was a bloody sacrifice. If they are participating in an unbloody one, then it's not the sacrifice of Christ.
Sacrifice without shedding of blood is ineffectual for remission of sin.
And then the question arises of where does the blood that Catholics claim they are consuming come from?
“Just think of the sheer vapidity of this statement and you will now understand why Catholics think of Bible Christians as so shallow that it would be impossible to get a paper boat to float in the waters of theological discourse in which they swim.”
Dear Steelfish,
I love your zeal in explaining and defending Catholic doctrine. Bless you.
But this kind of statement is just group defamation, insulting “protestants” in a way which is not only provocative to them, but provocative to me because it is untrue.
First of all, it is entirely unnecessary to indulge in demeaning language. Statements upholding the truth of the Catholic Faith can be made on the basis a clean argument, not taunting.
Second, it’s not true. Protestantism makes up a vast spectrum of persons, tendencies, and communities, and some of them are profoundly thoughtful and intellectually respectable, even if they have not the fullness of truth offered by the Catholic Church.
Third, this is insulting to Catholics, because you claim that “Catholics” think of “Bible Christians” as shallow, and we all, as a group, do not think this. You claim that your scorn of Bible Christians is shared by “Catholics” as a whole, and it is not.
Count me out.
I realize I’m acting as Theological Playground Cop here, and I don’t even have a badge. But in all sincerity,I ask you to think about this.
You go, girl......
You’re a gem, Mrs. Don-o.
God bless you.
Could he say, maybe, “ .....*many* Catholics think of Bible ‘Alone’ Christians as so shallow that it would be impossible to get a paper boat to float in the waters of theological discourse, in which they swim.”?
I think you are very courageous to stand up against what you think is “provocative to Protestants”, but in the universe of this thread, and on that subject, I was wondering where the, “some”, among the “profoundly thoughtful and intellectually respectable” might be?
And wondering, here, if your standard applies to all, whether you are inclined to correct the protestant provocations on this thread as sharply as you have corrected SF? I will look and see.
A Catholic thread could be of interest to more FR Catholics, but if it isn’t a caucus thread, then discourse looks like this one— and is always made impossible.
It does take a special gift to tolerate pigs with pearls, and I admit I don’t have it. I am sincerely impressed that you can tolerate it. It is a gift, and you’ve got it. I have dear friends like you, saints all, but there is also a place for some honest language, and admonishment, Davidic like language if you will, of the Psalms, too. It’s real and more than frank, even earthy, and it is just as true as a saint’s prayer.
This is combat, not Sunday School, and the interlopers have no intention of anything but combat. History assures I rarely participate on these threads, for all the open hate manifested here, that I have no interest in borrowing, and because I have seen the real cops are not Catholic, obviously, when it comes to defining who is getting personal.
In fact, it’s similar to Ferguson, MO around here.
We don’t always agree on the issues, but on this we agree.
This is combat, not Sunday School, and the interlopers have no intention of anything but combat. History assures I rarely participate on these threads, for all the open hate manifested here, that I have no interest in borrowing, and because I have seen the real cops are not Catholic, obviously, when it comes to defining who is getting personal.
In fact, it’s similar to Ferguson, MO around here.
And I suppose that you consider YOUR post to not be provocative.....
And yet here you are comparing non-Catholics to pigs, haters, interested only in combat, and Ferguson.
Physician, heal thyself.
FWIW, if this is equivalent to Ferguson, which side are the Catholics on? The cop, who you just said they weren't? Or the rioters who wanted the cop's head on a platter? Or the guy who was attacking the cop?
Guess.
Cop out answer......
At least have the guts to own your own words.
Just as a knight is sufficiently completed by a sword. He isn’t sufficiently completed by *only* a sword though, he also needs armor and training how to fight.
This is the same point regarding 2 Tim 3:16-17. No where there (or anywhere) does it say that the Bible *alone* (or only) sufficiently completes a man. The word “alone” (or “only”) isn’t in there.
This is surreal, no, not that, this:
Last Sunday my now Catholic m-i-l helped my mother take my father to Easter service at their Nazarene church. My father had a stroke last Thanksgiving and the recovery has been slow and difficult. Easter was the first Sunday he was able to go to church after the stroke.
My m-i-l has been a Catholic for five years after a long time bouncing from one church to another (from "the Vinyard" to Presbyterian to Methodist). She attended the Vigil for Easter and then helped my parents on Easter morning.
A few minutes ago I asked my mother-in-law how last Sunday went. She said, and I quote "It was just so shallow". That's the word she used... shallow. She said that was the only word she could come up with to describe it. "Anyone can get up there and sing for an hour" or preach for forty-five minutes. My m-i-l is no theologian but she reads her Bible every day (and every other Catholic book she can get her hands on). Somehow without prompting she nevertheless identified the problem.
Based on the timestamp that conversation happened just about the time you posted. She's freaking out and even I'm a bit weirded out by it.
I post this not to stir things up (which is why I didn't ping all and sundry to this) but only to make the point that, yeah, "Bible Christianity" as we know it in the United States is shallow. The liturgical Protestant churches that have their roots in the reformation have depth to their theology but there aren't many of them left standing.
I grew up in the Church of the Nazarene and by the time I was sixteen and a senior in high-school I had "outgrown" all that church had to feed my intellect with. My best friend (a priest) outgrew the depth of the Southern Baptists when he was twelve so I'm no prodigy, he is though.
None of this is to say that "Bible Christians" aren't Christians or that individually there aren't deeply spiritual Christians among their number (deeper than many a Catholic I might point out), my parents being prime examples. But the intellectual life just isn't there.
I think Catholics should correct Catholics and Protestants should correct each other. And by that I mean Catholics SHOULD correct each other if one thinks another is getting out of line. If we don't police ourselves then there's chaos.
I would suggest that true "Biblical Christianity" is intellectually challenging if it is done correctly. I think a lot of pastors, and I would include priests, don't prepare, don't study, or take their call seriously. They just mail it in.
I recall one church I briefly attended. The sermon was 15 minutes and the whole service was over in 30 minutes. That was shallow.
Personally, I think if a Christian is not being intellectually challenged, then it is incumbent upon the Christian to do something about that.
It may require a change in churches.
It may require you to have to study on your own. This is something many don't want to do. They want to be spoon fed and not "dig" out those golden nuggets that are in the Word of God.
Personally, I'm working on a Graduate Certificate in Biblical Languages to help me better understand the New Testament. Why? I want to know more so I can be a better Christian and teacher of the Word.
Peter noted:
1Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, 2like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, 3if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord (1 Peter 2:1-3 NASB).
And make an idol out of a cracker.
I’m so glad you said that. For a minute there, I thought things on this thread were “chaos”.
But you know how elusive balance can be, what with all the friendly fire and all. Especially when already under attack, there is nothing quite like a friend’s sharp admonishment in public, right in the middle of battle.
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