Posted on 04/02/2015 11:56:13 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski
What I posted is Romans chapter nine.
I am merely stating what Calvinism teaches.
Of course God can change a man’s nature, the question is does God only want to change some men’s nature ( the elect ) while predestinating those he chooses not to change to hell.
Does God desire all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth or just the elect?
While you say you share the Gospel with all, I wonder what you share. Do you tell everyone that God loves them, that He died for their sins? You can’t and be a consistent Calvinist. You may be sharing the Gospel with someone predestinated to hell, that Jesus did not die for. Do you tell them maybe God loves you?
Finally, I am not sure how predestination gives anyone comfort. Being a believer does nothing towards salvation, if you are elect you are in, not elect you are damned. Faith is supposed to,be an evidence of being elect, but Calvin taught there are many possessing faith that have a false faith and are not elect.
Why do you call people to repentance, to a consistent Calvinist repentance does not add or subtract from being saved.
I have found most people who claim to be Calvinist, when you actually look at what they say and teach, it is anything but consistent Calvinism.
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
“Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
I know he used to laud Hubert Humphrey in his sermons; they were personal friends.
I have forgotten how Mr. Schuller was apostate. Can you give two or three examples.
One more thought, you asked do I believe if God forces men to act against their nature. The answer is no.
Then you state you are comforted that the damned are given what they chose by nature, fair enough.
But to the consistent Calvinist, God does force man to act against his nature. If you are elect, you had the same sinful nature as the non elect. But Calvin taught thru irresistable grace, you were made alive. You had nothing to do with it, it was all of grace and it was all irresistable. The elect are not free to resist and God forces them against their sinful nature.
I know, I know, the Westminster Confession says they come “ most freely”, but they don’t define freedom as it typically is defined.
Schiller wasn’t a Christian. He preached a different gospel than that of Christianity. He may have claimed to be a Christian but by his own words he proved he was not. I take no pleasure in the thought of his eternity in Hell but it should serve as a warning to others. If he (Shuller) could talk to all those he deceived he would tell them not to come to the place where he is. I don’t know what his motivation was but I do know what he taught and it was not Christianity.
How should Shiller not being a Christian be a warning to others?
Do you believe there is anything a human being can do ( works ) that will affect whether God saves them or not?
He had some errors in his theology - such as belief in purgatory. However, I found Lewis to have a shrewd and clearly articulated orthodox position on most of the issues central to Christianity, and have no doubt he was saved. He has led countless folks to Christ and certainly has edified my faith. We all see through a glass darkly at this point, and no one person has 100% of the total picture. However, Lewis preached Christ and Him crucified. What he got wrong was not issues central to salvation.
So it’s the personal view of Paul.
“How should Shiller not being a Christian be a warning to others?”
Because he had the appearance of Christianity but his doctrine was clearly and easily refuted by the clear teaching of scripture. Salvation is only through the righteousness of Christ.. Schuller taught something very different and foreign to the Bible. He was not a Christian, he is dead, he is in hell now. That is a warning to those who can search the scriptures today and come to saving faith in Jesus Christ righteous work on the cross and in the resurrection.
Do you believe there is anything a human being can do ( works ) that will affect whether God saves them or not?
A man does works that prove that the Righteousness of Christ now dwells in him. One man is not better than the other, I am no better in my self than Robert Schuller the only difference is the grace of God that brought salvation in my life. I have nothing to brag about that I did to make myself acceptable to God. My works show what God has done in my life. I do not preach a different Gospel than the one in the Bible. Schuller did preach a different gospel. Again I take no pleasure in the death of any man that dies without the righteousness of Christ. I mourn over it.
We have nothing else to converse about. I believe the Bible and you don’t. Not meant to be a hostile comment to you we just have no common ground friend.
I jut don’t interpret it the way you do, and I don’t believe that it’s “inerrant” or anything of that ilk.
May I suggest anyone who claims Schiller was not a Christian, not elect does not understand salvation in Jesus Christ.
Were we with him the last days, hours, minutes of his life?
Do we know what his prayers were? Do we know if he cried out for mercy?
Do we know if he made an orthodox confession of Faith?
Was the thief on the cross saved, literally minutes before death?
May I suggest no one knows if the righteousness of Christ dwelled in him.
Preaching a different Gospel your whole life means nothing, if like the thief on the cross, God saved Him on his death bed. To deny this, is to deny the Gospel.
I'd say that's because you don't know what God says about it...Shuller was as removed from sound biblical doctrine as those who are teachers in the Catholic religion...
Ok.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:19,20
But if you don’t believe the Bible them this doesn’t make any difference to you which is OK by me, I don’t like it but I can’t change it and I accept you feel that way. See how tolerant I am?
See post 94
No, we are not forced against our nature. The believer’s nature is changed, which is clearly taught in the Bible (”heart of stone for a heart of flesh”). Once man’s nature is change, he is free to please God.
However, this new nature wars against the flesh (Romans 7). Paul cries out, “who will save me from this body of death”. But he goes on to say, “however, you are not in the flesh, but the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you”.
Do you believe man can drive the Holy Spirit out of himself once the Spirit indwells a man? Where is the comfort in that?
Now, once we are in Heaven, there will be no sin nature, and man will be unable to choose evil. Does this violate his free will, or will man still be free to follow his nature in Heaven? This is not an academic question, for those who question predestination claim free will was given to man to choose God, because God does not want robots to love and worship Him. If one believes in free will as stated, then free will is restricted in Heaven, and man is less of a man and more of a robot in Heaven than in on earth.
Grace and peace,
K51
To take Schuller words he spoke very publicly and point out his error is not to deny the gospel. We are only going off the testimony from Schuller himself and comparing it to Scripture.
He wasn’t a Christian IF he followed what he preached. That is all the evidence we have to go on. He was a very public figure, he had a venue to get the message out IF he wanted to in his last days. Could he have had a last minute conversion? Sure, maybe.
The thief on the cross was saved, he received the greatest assurance of any man who ever lived.
Calvin taught the believers nature is changed against his will. Before the change he is spiritually dead, that’s why he taught grace is irresistable. If it were resist able, if man had freedom to resist it, all would.
Again I am just saying what a consistent Calvinist would have to believe,but I have never met a truly consistent Calvinist.
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