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To: CynicalBear

You keep saying this:

Nonsense. The oracles of God were entrusted to the Jews first. The Catholic Church added to what the Jews considered scripture with no authority to do so. Luther simply attempted to return to what God gave the Jews authority to keep as scripture.

However, you never explain what you mean. Please, what are you speaking of?

Actually, when it comes to denomination, it first appears in 1Corinthians 1 10-16.

“Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. 16Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.”

You appear to be taking the stance that you alone decide what is right, and that the Holy Spirit tells each person the proper interpretation of Scripture. Is that true?

If that is true, then why do people have widely different opinions? Is the Holy Spirit telling the truth to one person, but a lie to another? In short, while we differ in opinion and belief, we can’t all be right if we claim the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Regarding a hierarchy, Scripture is silent on what Jesus may or may not have said. However, we do scriptural references to bishops, priests and deacons (1 Tim. 5:19–22; 2 Tim. 4:5; Titus 1:5) (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15) and (2 Cor. 3:6, 6:4, 11:23; Eph. 3:7) We also see recognition of the hierarchy in letters from Ignatius of Antioch to churches he passes on the way to Rome for execution in 110 AD.

Here is a sample:

“Now, therefore, it has been my privilege to see you in the person of your God-inspired bishop, Damas; and in the persons of your worthy presbyters, Bassus and Apollonius; and my fellow-servant, the deacon, Zotion. What a delight is his company! For he is subject to the bishop as to the grace of God, and to the presbytery as to the law of Jesus Christ” (Letter to the Magnesians 2 [A.D. 110]).

While you are wise to read the Scripture and trust the Holy Spirit, as well as recognizing the law God has written on the hearts of man, you may consider how it is you came to know what you hold true. Who taught you, and who taught them, and so on until the Reformation? And then, consider whether


209 posted on 03/31/2015 11:57:48 AM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: SpirituTuo
>>However, you never explain what you mean. Please, what are you speaking of?<<

Romans 3:2 ...First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.

That tells us that it was the Jews who God entrusted His word not the Catholics. The apocrypha WHICH THE CATHOLICS ADDED LATER was NOT part of scripture. This nonsense about the Protestants taking parts of scripture out is a lie. Protestants went back to what the Jews, to which God had entrusted His word, had decided was scripture.

>>Actually, when it comes to denomination, it first appears in 1Corinthians 1 10-16.<<

Again, absolute nonsense. Paul was scolding them for exactly what Catholics do. Catholics are the ones who proclaim "I follow Peter" or at least his successors. Did Peter die for you? Did the pope?

>>You appear to be taking the stance that you alone decide what is right, and that the Holy Spirit tells each person the proper interpretation of Scripture. Is that true?<<

1 John 2:26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

NOT the Catholic Church. NOT some "magisterium". And it will be you and you alone that answers, NOT some group. Put your faith in that group of it's leaders and suffer the fate of that leader or group. Time and time again it's shown how the Catholic Church has been teaching something other than what the apostles taught. Paul called those people accursed.

>>If that is true, then why do people have widely different opinions?<<

Probably the same reason the Catholic Church is wrong. Self interest rather than submitting oneself to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Many chose to allow others to make the decision thinking they will lesson the responsibility for themselves. Who knows? Jesus never said everyone would understand. Allow others to make your decisions for you as to what you believe and your faith is in them, not Christ.

>>we can’t all be right if we claim the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.<<

Do you listen to the Holy Spirit or the Catholic Church?

>>Regarding a hierarchy, Scripture is silent on what Jesus may or may not have said.<<

I think not.

Revelations 2:6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Nicolaitan means "conquerors of the people" or those who would lord it over the laity like the "magisterium" does. Then we have Jesus attitude toward the Pharisees which is analogous again to the Catholic Church hierarchy.

I will put my trust in the promised Holy Spirit to enlighten me as to what scripture teaches. Catholics put their trust in some fallible men who have proven themselves in many cases to be evil. Choose this day who you will serve.

210 posted on 03/31/2015 1:52:50 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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